Anonymous wrote:OP here. They are 14, 11, 8 and 2 - all girls if that matters. The two oldest have spent the most time with my in laws because we sent them to stay with DHs brother for a week in the summer for 3 years once they turned 8.

So how do THEY remember their grandfather? (Obviously will be different for the different ages.) You can help each of them process, privately, their memories, both good and bad. There doesn't have to be a party line for them. They can have their own feelings. For those that don't remember him well, they'll learn from their sisters and other relatives.

And then also as a family, not with the extended relatives, you can certainly talk about your FIL's alcoholism. It was eye-opening for me, as a kid, to learn about my grandfather's alcoholism and how it contributed to his early death. (I don't remember him.) My dad talked candidly, good and bad, about his father. He also talked about his alcoholism was part of a family pattern that he didn't want to continue, so we knew he was careful with alcohol (and so am I).

At a family party, though, it's fine to let other people state the "party line" without trying to correct them. If there's a specific case they're talking about, and that involved you, it's fine to gently speak your piece. (They say, "wasn't it funny how he woke us up late that night, shooting his gun?" You can say, "I remember it differently--that stressed me out." But then drop it.)

OP,

I strongly urge you to instruct your children NOT to talk about/refer to their grandfather's cause of death AT ALL around the people who loved him. My mom died when I was 22, and almost immediately after that, my dad's dad and others began to casually mention what they thought were her faults. I still want to punch them in the fact whenever they do this: it just draws emphasis to the fact that they didn't love her. Sure, she had some faults (as we all do), but there is no reason to bring these up for no reason whenever her name is mentioned, especially in front of people who loved her.

Dear OP: Snap!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The family is allowed to have good memories and tell fun stories about him -- he was still their father. Being an alcoholic doesn't diminish him as a person or as a beloved father. Now, that doesn't mean fun stories about his drunk driving or binge drinking should be encouraged around kids, but I really think that the kids have gotten the point that Grandpa had a problem. Enough said. Don't be a scold.

I don't think it's about trying to diminish him or harp on "But he was an alcoholic!"

Alcoholism is a disease. The problem is when we are not honest with are skeletons in the closet no matter if they are alcoholism, mental health, LDs, it makes it a lot harder for our kids. They need to know things from a health prospective in case they are encountering them too.

Patrick Kennedy is facing a lot of backlash from his family over his book about his family's struggle with alcoholism:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/05/in-putting-a-political-familys-secrets-out-in-the-open-patrick-kennedy-is-hardly-the-first/

It's not unusual for people in the same family to have different narratives/experiences with the same thing. Personally OP, I think your oldest two are ready to be educated about alcoholism. I don't think you use their grandfather as the primary example, but you can mention how this affected him too. Please remember, it is a disease. I think you should approach Al-Anon for help b/f moving forward in any case.

I don't think the family labeling him a free spirit means they are in denial about his alcoholism. They may be fully aware of his drinking, but still think of him as a free spirit. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Those are their memories of him.

The Patrick Kennedy book is very different. It's about his family's denial -- total denial -- of their rampant alcoholism. Totally different.

It does sound like the OP's extended family are in denial. And "free spirit" and "lived by his own terms" is code for never addressed the drinking.

However, OP, I don't think you need to say or do anything at family get-togethers. You've been straight with your kids, which is your domain. It's not your job to correct other people's perception or contradict the memories they want to share. I think you've done your due diligence. If your kids ask about the contradictions tell them that people want to remember the happy memories and not dwell on the negative. Overall, I think you're doing a good job of treading the line between what is said and what is left unsaid.

I'm not understanding why there needs to be a "party line" about every death in your family, or why everyone needs to be on message constantly. A death is not a publicity campaign.

My grandfather was an angry, abusive, alcoholic...when he was younger. My father and his siblings suffered at his hands and grew up despising him.

My siblings, cousins, and I all knew him as a funny, sharp, Matlock-loving, "get the biggest Blizzard with all the goodies," big-bear hugging guy.

I'm grateful that my father, aunts, and uncles allow us to remember him this way. Yes, they could constantly mention that he was a hateful, horrible father but, when my cousin tells the story of how Grampa taught him to ride a bike, they bite their tongues and nod.

Sometimes it's good to lighten up the family history a bit. It doesn't mean we don't know or acknowledge the truth but there's no need to focus on the darkness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The family is allowed to have good memories and tell fun stories about him -- he was still their father. Being an alcoholic doesn't diminish him as a person or as a beloved father. Now, that doesn't mean fun stories about his drunk driving or binge drinking should be encouraged around kids, but I really think that the kids have gotten the point that Grandpa had a problem. Enough said. Don't be a scold.

Agree

+2

Tell your kids that Grandpa was a wonderful person, and that his family would rather remember how wonderful he was and celebrate the good parts of his life than talk about his problems. It's very sad that such a wonderful person had this problem, and that he died because of it, but they should not be talking about how he died with his family, over the holidays. Any questions they have, they should bring to you in private.

He's not a life lesson, he's a person they loved. Whether or not they have come to grips with his alcoholism is not your problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The family is allowed to have good memories and tell fun stories about him -- he was still their father. Being an alcoholic doesn't diminish him as a person or as a beloved father. Now, that doesn't mean fun stories about his drunk driving or binge drinking should be encouraged around kids, but I really think that the kids have gotten the point that Grandpa had a problem. Enough said. Don't be a scold.

I don't think it's about trying to diminish him or harp on "But he was an alcoholic!"

Alcoholism is a disease. The problem is when we are not honest with are skeletons in the closet no matter if they are alcoholism, mental health, LDs, it makes it a lot harder for our kids. They need to know things from a health prospective in case they are encountering them too.

Patrick Kennedy is facing a lot of backlash from his family over his book about his family's struggle with alcoholism:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/05/in-putting-a-political-familys-secrets-out-in-the-open-patrick-kennedy-is-hardly-the-first/

It's not unusual for people in the same family to have different narratives/experiences with the same thing. Personally OP, I think your oldest two are ready to be educated about alcoholism. I don't think you use their grandfather as the primary example, but you can mention how this affected him too. Please remember, it is a disease. I think you should approach Al-Anon for help b/f moving forward in any case.

I don't think the family labeling him a free spirit means they are in denial about his alcoholism. They may be fully aware of his drinking, but still think of him as a free spirit. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Those are their memories of him.

The Patrick Kennedy book is very different. It's about his family's denial -- total denial -- of their rampant alcoholism. Totally different.