Anonymous
10/20/2015 12:58
Subject: Congrats Siemens semi finalists
Anonymous wrote:
Have you taken the trouble to read some of the projects? Original groundbreaking work in a lab always gets published unless there are other reasons (classified research for example) not to publish. The main author is always the primary individual doing the work.
Huh? No. It doesn't always.
Anonymous
10/20/2015 12:36
Subject: Congrats Siemens semi finalists
Anonymous wrote:
Have you taken the trouble to read some of the projects? Original groundbreaking work in a lab always gets published unless there are other reasons (classified research for example) not to publish. The main author is always the primary individual doing the work.
That might be how it should work in the World of Truth and Justice for All. It's not how it works in the real world we actually live in.
Anonymous
10/20/2015 12:28
Subject: Congrats Siemens semi finalists
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Seriously? Are these kids able to do groundbreaking research in just two months or so? How come we never hear of them going on to achieve extraordinary things?
How come I don't see peer reviewed papers on the winning topics with these students as the principal author?
Just curious.
Harvard interviewer here. We get applications every year from kids at Blair and TJ who have published papers. The PI who raised the money is generally the first author, and the second and third authors did the experimental design and benchwork. We have seen applications from kids who are second and third authors.
PP: This is what I am trying to figure out. Obviously these are smart kids. My question is, is there something structural in place in the magnets that is allowing the kids to do this? Is there a list of mentors? Is there a class? Are parents encouraged to reach out to colleagues?
It's impt to remember though too that the studies that don't get the expected results are a lot harder to get published - so that might account for there isn't a lot published
From, a professor who is the 2nd and 3rd author on lots of papers, some of which I contributed a lot to (got screwed by the alphabet!), some of which I ran one stat for or wrote a brief lit review on one concept - so not sure how impressive that is. Also, I stick students names on my papers a lot even if they just did "grunt" work.
Kids are asked to find their own internship. They do through parents and/or colleagues of parents. From what I heard, then they write up the work already being done by the lab and submit it to competitions. Just looking at previous winners and doing some research I found some of the projects that were submitted were for work that the lab had produced long before. "Also, I stick students names on my papers a lot even if they just did "grunt" work" is something that does happen often and that's what these kids do--they are what some call the "lab rats."
Anonymous
10/20/2015 12:20
Subject: Re:Congrats Siemens semi finalists
Anonymous wrote:Were posts removed from this section?
My previous post congratulated the students.
But then asked for clarification on my belief that the students in Blair have a class dedicated to this project, and doesn't that give them an advantage? What is wrong with that kind of post?
I think Blair does have classes dedicated to preparing and entering science fairs. Is that prepping that many posters seem to find objectionable? Is it unfair advantage when other schools do not do this? TJ does not have classes dedicated to entering science fairs and I am not aware of any schools that offer such classes during instructional time.
Anonymous
10/20/2015 11:42
Subject: Congrats Siemens semi finalists
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Seriously? Are these kids able to do groundbreaking research in just two months or so? How come we never hear of them going on to achieve extraordinary things?
How come I don't see peer reviewed papers on the winning topics with these students as the principal author?
Just curious.
Well, it is a high school competition, right? I don't think the things you are asking about are expected. And just because someone enters a contest like this in high school doesn't mean they might not go on to chose to study something else later in life.
I think the point was that if this was original groundbreaking work, one would see publication in a peer reviewed journal.
One would? I wouldn't, not necessarily. Maybe there would be publication. Maybe there would be a patent. Maybe there would be a business idea. Maybe there wouldn't be anything. In any case, it's certainly silly to assume that, if there wasn't publication in a peer-reviewed journal, it must not have been original groundbreaking work.
Have you taken the trouble to read some of the projects? Original groundbreaking work in a lab always gets published unless there are other reasons (classified research for example) not to publish. The main author is always the primary individual doing the work.
Anonymous
10/20/2015 10:55
Subject: Congrats Siemens semi finalists
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Seriously? Are these kids able to do groundbreaking research in just two months or so? How come we never hear of them going on to achieve extraordinary things?
How come I don't see peer reviewed papers on the winning topics with these students as the principal author?
Just curious.
Harvard interviewer here. We get applications every year from kids at Blair and TJ who have published papers. The PI who raised the money is generally the first author, and the second and third authors did the experimental design and benchwork. We have seen applications from kids who are second and third authors.
PP: This is what I am trying to figure out. Obviously these are smart kids. My question is, is there something structural in place in the magnets that is allowing the kids to do this? Is there a list of mentors? Is there a class? Are parents encouraged to reach out to colleagues?
It's impt to remember though too that the studies that don't get the expected results are a lot harder to get published - so that might account for there isn't a lot published
From, a professor who is the 2nd and 3rd author on lots of papers, some of which I contributed a lot to (got screwed by the alphabet!), some of which I ran one stat for or wrote a brief lit review on one concept - so not sure how impressive that is. Also, I stick students names on my papers a lot even if they just did "grunt" work.
Anonymous
10/20/2015 10:42
Subject: Congrats Siemens semi finalists
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Seriously? Are these kids able to do groundbreaking research in just two months or so? How come we never hear of them going on to achieve extraordinary things?
How come I don't see peer reviewed papers on the winning topics with these students as the principal author?
Just curious.
Well, it is a high school competition, right? I don't think the things you are asking about are expected. And just because someone enters a contest like this in high school doesn't mean they might not go on to chose to study something else later in life.
I think the point was that if this was original groundbreaking work, one would see publication in a peer reviewed journal.
One would? I wouldn't, not necessarily. Maybe there would be publication. Maybe there would be a patent. Maybe there would be a business idea. Maybe there wouldn't be anything. In any case, it's certainly silly to assume that, if there wasn't publication in a peer-reviewed journal, it must not have been original groundbreaking work.
Anonymous
10/20/2015 10:39
Subject: Congrats Siemens semi finalists
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Seriously? Are these kids able to do groundbreaking research in just two months or so? How come we never hear of them going on to achieve extraordinary things?
How come I don't see peer reviewed papers on the winning topics with these students as the principal author?
Just curious.
Well, it is a high school competition, right? I don't think the things you are asking about are expected. And just because someone enters a contest like this in high school doesn't mean they might not go on to chose to study something else later in life.
I think the point was that if this was original groundbreaking work, one would see publication in a peer reviewed journal.
Anonymous
10/20/2015 10:16
Subject: Congrats Siemens semi finalists
Anonymous wrote:Seriously? Are these kids able to do groundbreaking research in just two months or so? How come we never hear of them going on to achieve extraordinary things?
How come I don't see peer reviewed papers on the winning topics with these students as the principal author?
Just curious.
Harvard interviewer here. We get applications every year from kids at Blair and TJ who have published papers. The PI who raised the money is generally the first author, and the second and third authors did the experimental design and benchwork. We have seen applications from kids who are second and third authors.
Anonymous
10/20/2015 10:02
Subject: Congrats Siemens semi finalists
Anonymous wrote:Seriously? Are these kids able to do groundbreaking research in just two months or so? How come we never hear of them going on to achieve extraordinary things?
How come I don't see peer reviewed papers on the winning topics with these students as the principal author?
Just curious.
Like being a Siemens competition semi-finalist, for example? I certainly never did anything like that. Go, semi-finalists!