Anonymous
12/02/2015 20:25
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
Anonymous wrote:comments regarding dc not able to sit still, does that include watching movies?
the crying and screaming, does that mostly happen when told no and/or having to leave an area of play?
dd, now 3, would scream whenever told no since she was 6 months old. when leaving a place she is enjoying (park/playground/stores) it mostly involves me carrying her while she is kicking and screaming. eating at restaurants is typically rushed because after 5 minutes, she would start climbing chairs or wanting to leave the table. when told she can't play with something, she will immediately try to grab something else. for example, when told not play with the fork, she will grab the next closest item. it is as if she needs to have the power of control always in her favor.
I don't have a kid with ADHD, but I was/am a kid with ADHD. (AFAIK-- she is not 3 yet but seems to be beating the odds in terms of behavior, given both DH and I have actual diagnoses.)
This sounds like hyperfocus to me, for sure. A lot of people say "but she will sit totally still for a movie/read an entire chapter book without stopping/etc." but that's actually a sign of ADHD (well, it CAN be). Hyperfocus on something very stimulating. Having a long attention span for something extremely stimulating is not a sign that one doesn't have ADHD-- often the opposite, in fact.
Anonymous
12/02/2015 16:06
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Disagree with others that you can't tell a kid has ADHD at 4. Doctors won't DIAGNOSE at that age (except in extreme cases where personal safety is at risk) -- but that's because there's not much benefit of diagnosing at that age (they generally won't put them on drugs). But certainly there are some kids who clearly are wired fundamentally differently than other kids at this age. My son is one of them. Everybody complains that their kids are constantly in motion, are hyper, blah, blah. Then they meet my kid. I had a dad of 5 sons under the age of 10 commiserating with me about "busy boys" and then he saw my son and his exact words were "wow, he really moves a lot". So i think one reason they won't diagnose at that age is that every mother would be in complaining her kid had ADHD, and most 15 minute doctor exams aren't set up to differentiate between the regular hyper kid versus the obviously ADHD kid.
In our case, it's not just a matter of getting bored and moving from activity to activity --which is pretty normal preschooler behavior. It's that he literally cannot stop moving. Knee shaking, bouncing, running, banging the fork, pulling his hair, clapping his hands. There is not a moment in our day that my son is not moving. Even when we are reading books (which he loves and will sit for hours for), he will be swinging his head around, shake his toes out every 10 seconds and will be pulling his hair the whole time. There's another girl in his class this year, and it is super interesting, because she also clearly has ADHD. They both have the same movement/fidget issues, but hers is a talking hyperactivity while my son's is a personal-space physicality issue. Having read several studies on the issue, ADHD-hyperactive only type often shows up in these different ways in boys v girls.
I'm this PP. One more thing: our earliest true signs of ADHD (other than being twice as fast as the other crawling infants) were his "crazy face" -- that is, he would squeeze his fists insanely tight and clench his teeth. And he would pull hair of his caregivers all the time. He was doing all this at like 10 months, and we knew that he had different sensory-input needs back then.
that's funny - I do this and so does my mom! My 3.5 year old son def has ADHD. He has had some delays and he is just constantly moving, never eve stopping and has a LOT of sensory needs. People are always remarking on what a "handful" he is. He is super fun but exhausting and frustrating. It is hard.
Anonymous
12/02/2015 15:50
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
Anonymous wrote:Disagree with others that you can't tell a kid has ADHD at 4. Doctors won't DIAGNOSE at that age (except in extreme cases where personal safety is at risk) -- but that's because there's not much benefit of diagnosing at that age (they generally won't put them on drugs). But certainly there are some kids who clearly are wired fundamentally differently than other kids at this age. My son is one of them. Everybody complains that their kids are constantly in motion, are hyper, blah, blah. Then they meet my kid. I had a dad of 5 sons under the age of 10 commiserating with me about "busy boys" and then he saw my son and his exact words were "wow, he really moves a lot". So i think one reason they won't diagnose at that age is that every mother would be in complaining her kid had ADHD, and most 15 minute doctor exams aren't set up to differentiate between the regular hyper kid versus the obviously ADHD kid.
In our case, it's not just a matter of getting bored and moving from activity to activity --which is pretty normal preschooler behavior. It's that he literally cannot stop moving. Knee shaking, bouncing, running, banging the fork, pulling his hair, clapping his hands. There is not a moment in our day that my son is not moving. Even when we are reading books (which he loves and will sit for hours for), he will be swinging his head around, shake his toes out every 10 seconds and will be pulling his hair the whole time. There's another girl in his class this year, and it is super interesting, because she also clearly has ADHD. They both have the same movement/fidget issues, but hers is a talking hyperactivity while my son's is a personal-space physicality issue. Having read several studies on the issue, ADHD-hyperactive only type often shows up in these different ways in boys v girls.
I'm this PP. One more thing: our earliest true signs of ADHD (other than being twice as fast as the other crawling infants) were his "crazy face" -- that is, he would squeeze his fists insanely tight and clench his teeth. And he would pull hair of his caregivers all the time. He was doing all this at like 10 months, and we knew that he had different sensory-input needs back then.
Anonymous
12/02/2015 15:47
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
Disagree with others that you can't tell a kid has ADHD at 4. Doctors won't DIAGNOSE at that age (except in extreme cases where personal safety is at risk) -- but that's because there's not much benefit of diagnosing at that age (they generally won't put them on drugs). But certainly there are some kids who clearly are wired fundamentally differently than other kids at this age. My son is one of them. Everybody complains that their kids are constantly in motion, are hyper, blah, blah. Then they meet my kid. I had a dad of 5 sons under the age of 10 commiserating with me about "busy boys" and then he saw my son and his exact words were "wow, he really moves a lot". So i think one reason they won't diagnose at that age is that every mother would be in complaining her kid had ADHD, and most 15 minute doctor exams aren't set up to differentiate between the regular hyper kid versus the obviously ADHD kid.
In our case, it's not just a matter of getting bored and moving from activity to activity --which is pretty normal preschooler behavior. It's that he literally cannot stop moving. Knee shaking, bouncing, running, banging the fork, pulling his hair, clapping his hands. There is not a moment in our day that my son is not moving. Even when we are reading books (which he loves and will sit for hours for), he will be swinging his head around, shake his toes out every 10 seconds and will be pulling his hair the whole time. There's another girl in his class this year, and it is super interesting, because she also clearly has ADHD. They both have the same movement/fidget issues, but hers is a talking hyperactivity while my son's is a personal-space physicality issue. Having read several studies on the issue, ADHD-hyperactive only type often shows up in these different ways in boys v girls.
In our case, it's not just a matter of getting bored and moving from activity to activity --which is pretty normal preschooler behavior. It's that he literally cannot stop moving. Knee shaking, bouncing, running, banging the fork, pulling his hair, clapping his hands. There is not a moment in our day that my son is not moving. Even when we are reading books (which he loves and will sit for hours for), he will be swinging his head around, shake his toes out every 10 seconds and will be pulling his hair the whole time. There's another girl in his class this year, and it is super interesting, because she also clearly has ADHD. They both have the same movement/fidget issues, but hers is a talking hyperactivity while my son's is a personal-space physicality issue. Having read several studies on the issue, ADHD-hyperactive only type often shows up in these different ways in boys v girls.
Anonymous
12/02/2015 15:02
Subject: How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
This is a great post as I have been wondering the same thing about my 3.5 year old DD. I have spoken with our pediatrician many times and know she is too young for any kind of diagnosis, plus girls are often harder to diagnose. Our biggest issues are:
1 - Not sitting still at meals pretty much ever. She is constantly getting up to walk around, standing on a chair, etc. Sometimes I let her bring a book or toy to the table which does keep her a bit more occupied and sitting for longer, but she still fidgets.
2 - Not playing with toys or focusing on any activity for more than a minute or two. She is constantly starting something and then moving on to the next thing, and strongly prefers running/jumping/climbing over sitting down and playing with any kind of toy.
Like the OP and maybe others have noted, my DD just seems to be very different from her peers who I do see sitting much better at meals, and also being able to play with a toy for at least 5 minutes when something interests them. I know there is a spectrum of normal for everything, I just don't have a good grasp on where the line is drawn and behavior is abnormal. I guess only time will tell.
1 - Not sitting still at meals pretty much ever. She is constantly getting up to walk around, standing on a chair, etc. Sometimes I let her bring a book or toy to the table which does keep her a bit more occupied and sitting for longer, but she still fidgets.
2 - Not playing with toys or focusing on any activity for more than a minute or two. She is constantly starting something and then moving on to the next thing, and strongly prefers running/jumping/climbing over sitting down and playing with any kind of toy.
Like the OP and maybe others have noted, my DD just seems to be very different from her peers who I do see sitting much better at meals, and also being able to play with a toy for at least 5 minutes when something interests them. I know there is a spectrum of normal for everything, I just don't have a good grasp on where the line is drawn and behavior is abnormal. I guess only time will tell.
Anonymous
12/02/2015 12:19
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
Lots of injuries. (Never went 30 days without some kind of severe fall or weird accident due to impulsivity).
Shoes. If you have to buy new shoes every 6-8 weeks because of the running.
Other kids identify your kid as the crazy one.
Lots of pictures with someone physically holding them in place when the camera clicks (I can now diagnose families based on Christmas cards or FB photos! JK. Kinda)
Extreme food issues. OVERSTUFFING the mouth to the point of choking when hungry or chugging down liquids like they are at a frat party.
LACK OF HAND-ME-DOWNS because they destroy clothing.
Stuff like that.
You can also try a quick OT assessment and see what they think. If it is developmental thing where your kiddo needs to have a better sense of space they can help. Also, motor planning and self-regulation.
One of my kids was an obvi diagnosis. Other I am still on the fence about (9) but OT helped him at 6.
Shoes. If you have to buy new shoes every 6-8 weeks because of the running.
Other kids identify your kid as the crazy one.
Lots of pictures with someone physically holding them in place when the camera clicks (I can now diagnose families based on Christmas cards or FB photos! JK. Kinda)
Extreme food issues. OVERSTUFFING the mouth to the point of choking when hungry or chugging down liquids like they are at a frat party.
LACK OF HAND-ME-DOWNS because they destroy clothing.
Stuff like that.
You can also try a quick OT assessment and see what they think. If it is developmental thing where your kiddo needs to have a better sense of space they can help. Also, motor planning and self-regulation.
One of my kids was an obvi diagnosis. Other I am still on the fence about (9) but OT helped him at 6.
Anonymous
12/02/2015 09:59
Subject: How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
OP, I have 4 yr old twins, one of whom sounds very much like your daughter, though we also had a LOT of serious tantrum/rage issues w/ him also.
I found tremendous support and knowledge on the Special Needs thread - I strongly suggest you post there.
Also, fwiw my 4 year old is evolving rapidly. Six months ago we thought it was very possible we were facing a diagnosis of some kind (ADHD, or ODD, or something.)
I don't think that anymore - his emotional growth over the past 3 months has been enormous and his ability to join a group, etc... is also growing. He's also still quite happy (and very often seeks out) being on his own, doing his own thing, etc... He's quite a lot like one of his parents in this regard so he may just come by it naturally.
But hang in there. I hear so much of our descriptors in your post and I think it's a little early to know for sure. But do try the Special Needs group - they were wonderfully supportive and helpful to me.
I found tremendous support and knowledge on the Special Needs thread - I strongly suggest you post there.
Also, fwiw my 4 year old is evolving rapidly. Six months ago we thought it was very possible we were facing a diagnosis of some kind (ADHD, or ODD, or something.)
I don't think that anymore - his emotional growth over the past 3 months has been enormous and his ability to join a group, etc... is also growing. He's also still quite happy (and very often seeks out) being on his own, doing his own thing, etc... He's quite a lot like one of his parents in this regard so he may just come by it naturally.
But hang in there. I hear so much of our descriptors in your post and I think it's a little early to know for sure. But do try the Special Needs group - they were wonderfully supportive and helpful to me.
Anonymous
12/02/2015 09:46
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
Anonymous wrote:She sits during circle time, generally follows directions during school, is calm in restaurants, and is a great car passenger. But her degree of unwillingness to separate from a playground and her overall stubbornness outside of a school and activity setting is so intense compared to most other kids that it concerns me.
Seeing that my mother would have to carry me home from pre-school and the playground more than once when I was 3/4... and I once threw up when I was temper trantrum-ing because I wasn't getting in a car without a carseat at age 5... I definitely was "intense" compared to other kids that age. I do not have ADHD. She is four. Let her be four.
Anonymous
12/02/2015 09:32
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
comments regarding dc not able to sit still, does that include watching movies?
the crying and screaming, does that mostly happen when told no and/or having to leave an area of play?
dd, now 3, would scream whenever told no since she was 6 months old. when leaving a place she is enjoying (park/playground/stores) it mostly involves me carrying her while she is kicking and screaming. eating at restaurants is typically rushed because after 5 minutes, she would start climbing chairs or wanting to leave the table. when told she can't play with something, she will immediately try to grab something else. for example, when told not play with the fork, she will grab the next closest item. it is as if she needs to have the power of control always in her favor.
the crying and screaming, does that mostly happen when told no and/or having to leave an area of play?
dd, now 3, would scream whenever told no since she was 6 months old. when leaving a place she is enjoying (park/playground/stores) it mostly involves me carrying her while she is kicking and screaming. eating at restaurants is typically rushed because after 5 minutes, she would start climbing chairs or wanting to leave the table. when told she can't play with something, she will immediately try to grab something else. for example, when told not play with the fork, she will grab the next closest item. it is as if she needs to have the power of control always in her favor.
Anonymous
10/13/2015 17:08
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
You have issues at home and school. You stop guessing and take her to a developmental pediatrician. Our kid was diagnosed at 4.
When and if you do medications if a different matter entirely, but there are always more effective parenting approaches, e.g., Ross Green: The Explosive Child, The Kazdin Method, etc.
I'd read these first, and if you implement good strategies you may not be having the same issues.
When and if you do medications if a different matter entirely, but there are always more effective parenting approaches, e.g., Ross Green: The Explosive Child, The Kazdin Method, etc.
I'd read these first, and if you implement good strategies you may not be having the same issues.
Anonymous
10/13/2015 17:01
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
DD is ADHD combined. She can hyperfocus on, say, Legos and then barely be able to get dressed. She is absolutely hyper and not particularly inattentive, but it happens.
I would echo the above PPs. Watch your kid and follow-up on what concerns you. But not even four is hard to come up with strategies that a kid could understand. Play therapy can only go so far and at that age, it's not an effective mechanism.
I would echo the above PPs. Watch your kid and follow-up on what concerns you. But not even four is hard to come up with strategies that a kid could understand. Play therapy can only go so far and at that age, it's not an effective mechanism.
Anonymous
10/13/2015 16:00
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No answer, but exactly the same question for my almost 4 year old. Utterly unable to focus on any tasks even those she enjoys and seeks out. Any class - even ones she requests - are a disaster. Preschool teacher just pulled me aside and said they were having trouble getting her to participate in any group activities and she has yet to even sit through a circle time, etc.
One "symptom" of ADHD is hyperfocusing. A lot of ADHD kids hyperfocus on an activity they love because it gets their dopamine going. "Almost 4" is really young to determine anything but a severe special need. I would also ask them how long the circle time is. I remember hearing that at age 4, an appropriate circle time length is 5-7 min. A lot of preschools are trying for 10-20.
It is a symptom of classic inattentive but not necessarily of hyperactive, at all.
Anonymous
10/13/2015 15:59
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No answer, but exactly the same question for my almost 4 year old. Utterly unable to focus on any tasks even those she enjoys and seeks out. Any class - even ones she requests - are a disaster. Preschool teacher just pulled me aside and said they were having trouble getting her to participate in any group activities and she has yet to even sit through a circle time, etc.
One "symptom" of ADHD is hyperfocusing. A lot of ADHD kids hyperfocus on an activity they love because it gets their dopamine going. "Almost 4" is really young to determine anything but a severe special need. I would also ask them how long the circle time is. I remember hearing that at age 4, an appropriate circle time length is 5-7 min. A lot of preschools are trying for 10-20.
I mean, this depends. My son has been found to have "delays". and they are generally described as "mild." It is possible to have an attention delay, actually. But an actual diagosis, while not impossible, is generally only given in severe cases if we are talking ADHD because as said upthread, some kids grow out of stuff and there is not much to be done at this age.
Anonymous
10/13/2015 15:53
Subject: Re:How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
Anonymous wrote:No answer, but exactly the same question for my almost 4 year old. Utterly unable to focus on any tasks even those she enjoys and seeks out. Any class - even ones she requests - are a disaster. Preschool teacher just pulled me aside and said they were having trouble getting her to participate in any group activities and she has yet to even sit through a circle time, etc.
One "symptom" of ADHD is hyperfocusing. A lot of ADHD kids hyperfocus on an activity they love because it gets their dopamine going. "Almost 4" is really young to determine anything but a severe special need. I would also ask them how long the circle time is. I remember hearing that at age 4, an appropriate circle time length is 5-7 min. A lot of preschools are trying for 10-20.
Anonymous
10/13/2015 15:45
Subject: How did you know that your four year old daughter had adhd?
Anonymous wrote:At age 4, they called it sensory processing disorder, related to a need to be constantly in motion. At age 6, it took them about a minute to diagnose ADHD. From your description, OP, it sounds like your DD is exhibiting a lot more control than mine did at that age. You may have a different outcome.
I agree when I went to a restaurant with my dd, we walked to the bathroom and back like a bunch of times plus out in the lobby, round and about, she could not sit still in a restaurant. And about the car, there was a time when I could not get dd in the car. She was 2 and every time we approached the car even to somewhere fun like the pool, she would start crying and resisting. I remember several times that I just gave up on going somewhere fun, and we just walked around the neighborhood because the "fun" outing wasn't fun because of the car.