Anonymous
10/06/2015 20:04
Subject: Re:Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
When I asked re: my daughter's scores of xx, I got a real snippy response. To which I said, "If you're saying her score is too low, can you assure me that no other child will get in with a lower score?"
Anonymous
10/06/2015 19:41
Subject: Re:Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm a third grade teacher, and I usually hear from our AART at some point about which students are parent/teacher referrals and which students qualify on their own. It's pretty rare though[u] that there is a kid we all know has no business being in who was pushed through by a savvy parent.
Either the admission process is a farce (in which case, a "savvy parent" can push a child through) OR the admission process is legitimate and therefore only kids who qualify get through. Which is it?
If there are 6+ people approving each child who is admitted in addition to standardized test scores, then tell me how, exactly, is a parent able to push their undeserving child through?
Isn't it possible to have a third option: mistakes slip through the cracks. Doctors inadvertently don't diagnose a malignancy. Lawyers forget to file an important document on time. A kid is approved when he shouldn't be. (By "shouldn't be," that could be defined as him having an amazingly high IQ but zero ability to do the work (maybe OCD, maybe lazy, maybe high anxiety,etc.) - so reasonable minds could differ as to whether the kid should be in. Regardless. it isn't as black and white as you're trying to make it. Since the teacher said it is "rare" this occurs, why on earth would you think the admission process is a farce?
That sounds like one of those highly gifted kids the program was designed to serve. AAP is not an achievement program. Those kids do fine on their own. This is what has ruined gifted learning in FCPS.
Not to me. I shudder to think of an entire class of kids who can't get the work done. Some, yes. All? No.
Anonymous
10/06/2015 12:17
Subject: Re:Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:\DS63 wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP you have analyzed the sytem very well and put some good infact great points.
Why does system allow parents to do referral is because parents spend most of time with kids than anyone else. And it is possible that parents might have noticed some traits in their children which others might not have.
But in current system what is happening is all parents are observing that their children aregifted. Can it be really true or is it just that parents want to put their kids in AAP for bragging rights or not be shameful saying their kid is GE or for whatever reasons known to them.
If you notice IQ of all children here start with 130
I never heard/read in this forum with IQs like 110 ,100,107. Though 100 is supposed to be most common.
Actually, average in FCPS is above 100, probably. Using the SAT's as a poxy, the average score in FCPS is about 1 standard deviation above the national average, or probably about 115.
At the reason why you don't see lower IQ's here is because 1) people lie, and 2) AAP kids will not have sub 115 IQ's/.
+1. CogAT scores, assuming no prepping, loosely correlate with IQ, but there is a wide spred.
I call BS. I have known at least 3 kids who had COGATs in the low teens.
The CogAT score is not the same as the IQ.
Anonymous
10/06/2015 11:48
Subject: Re:Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
Anonymous wrote:DS63 wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP you have analyzed the sytem very well and put some good infact great points.
Why does system allow parents to do referral is because parents spend most of time with kids than anyone else. And it is possible that parents might have noticed some traits in their children which others might not have.
But in current system what is happening is all parents are observing that their children aregifted. Can it be really true or is it just that parents want to put their kids in AAP for bragging rights or not be shameful saying their kid is GE or for whatever reasons known to them.
If you notice IQ of all children here start with 130
I never heard/read in this forum with IQs like 110 ,100,107. Though 100 is supposed to be most common.
Actually, average in FCPS is above 100, probably. Using the SAT's as a poxy, the average score in FCPS is about 1 standard deviation above the national average, or probably about 115.
At the reason why you don't see lower IQ's here is because 1) people lie, and 2) AAP kids will not have sub 115 IQ's/.
I call BS. I have known at least 3 kids who had COGATs in the low teens.
The CogAT score is not the same as the IQ.
Anonymous
10/06/2015 10:52
Subject: Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
Op here. This thread is helpful as it seems like the scores aren't used once they are in. No prep it is then.
Anonymous
10/06/2015 09:51
Subject: Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
Anonymous wrote:I'm asking bc dh and I are having a disagreement about prepping my kid for the entry tests. Our child will qualify - but my husband thinks we should prep him anyway bc teachers will look at the scores for placement within aap. Our child hold can hold his own with 4th graders in math, reading, and is very talented in computer programming and we had discussions last year with the school about having him skip first grade so they school is aware. But I feel like it is a waste of time since he will likely crush the test without prep.
This is terrible! I guess it's possible that in 3rd grade kids could be tracked by standardized scores-- but I have never heard of this (and sent 2 kids through the ES center) and think that the opposite would happen-- they would try to make the classes as even as possible academically-- a mix of high and lower qualifiers. I think that math is the only place that tracking could happen. Some Centers track a small cohort of kids to take Algebra I in 6th instead of 7th. But this should not start until 4th, and should be based on demonstrated math aptitude (teacher selection) and not 1st-2nd grade standardized scores. And lots of centers do not have this option. Give you DC a break. Once they qualify for AAP, their demonstrated aptitude day in and day out is a lot more important than a few COGAT points.
Anonymous
10/06/2015 09:20
Subject: Re:Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DS63 wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP you have analyzed the sytem very well and put some good infact great points.
Why does system allow parents to do referral is because parents spend most of time with kids than anyone else. And it is possible that parents might have noticed some traits in their children which others might not have.
But in current system what is happening is all parents are observing that their children aregifted. Can it be really true or is it just that parents want to put their kids in AAP for bragging rights or not be shameful saying their kid is GE or for whatever reasons known to them.
If you notice IQ of all children here start with 130
I never heard/read in this forum with IQs like 110 ,100,107. Though 100 is supposed to be most common.
Actually, average in FCPS is above 100, probably. Using the SAT's as a poxy, the average score in FCPS is about 1 standard deviation above the national average, or probably about 115.
At the reason why you don't see lower IQ's here is because 1) people lie, and 2) AAP kids will not have sub 115 IQ's/.
I call BS. I have known at least 3 kids who had COGATs in the low teens.
Absolutely. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.
Agree. A student can have a bad day on a test. Thankfully AAP Level IV eligibility is not based on a single test on a single day.
Anonymous
10/06/2015 09:13
Subject: Re:Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
Anonymous wrote:DS63 wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP you have analyzed the sytem very well and put some good infact great points.
Why does system allow parents to do referral is because parents spend most of time with kids than anyone else. And it is possible that parents might have noticed some traits in their children which others might not have.
But in current system what is happening is all parents are observing that their children aregifted. Can it be really true or is it just that parents want to put their kids in AAP for bragging rights or not be shameful saying their kid is GE or for whatever reasons known to them.
If you notice IQ of all children here start with 130
I never heard/read in this forum with IQs like 110 ,100,107. Though 100 is supposed to be most common.
Actually, average in FCPS is above 100, probably. Using the SAT's as a poxy, the average score in FCPS is about 1 standard deviation above the national average, or probably about 115.
At the reason why you don't see lower IQ's here is because 1) people lie, and 2) AAP kids will not have sub 115 IQ's/.
I call BS. I have known at least 3 kids who had COGATs in the low teens.
Absolutely. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.
Anonymous
10/06/2015 09:12
Subject: Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
The issue is whether there are "mistakes" of kids getting in who shouldn't be in simply because they had pushy parents getting them into the program.
If your child missed the cut off but eventually got in and is doing fine, or if your child met the cut off but wasn't accepted although you think s/he would do fine -- this is the same as having had a pushy parent get an unqualified child into the program who doesn't belong (ie.. is failing).
These are not the same situations.
If your child missed the cut off but eventually got in and is doing fine, or if your child met the cut off but wasn't accepted although you think s/he would do fine -- this is the same as having had a pushy parent get an unqualified child into the program who doesn't belong (ie.. is failing).
These are not the same situations.
Anonymous
10/06/2015 09:01
Subject: Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
Anonymous wrote:Yes, mistakes definitely happen. My neighbor's child was in the pool but was not initially accepted. They did testing at GMU and appealed and the child was then accepted. I think it was probably a mistake, because years later the child was on the National Merit Semifinalist list and ended up getting a National Merit scholarship.
Clearly, the initial non-acceptance was a mistake. The parents thought their child needed the program, so had the testing done for the appeal. They are not pushy people, they just wanted their child to be appropriately placed. As it turned out, that child really did belong in the GT/AAP program, even though the initial reviewers didn't appear to think so. Mistakes do happen and it is good that we have a review system.
This happened to my child. She was off the charts on the non-verbal parts but just above average on the verbal parts (with a composite well above what any one tat part had to be that year) and had a decent GBRS. She was rejected. The AART told me it was because the non-verbal scores weren't important for school. Only verbal correlate to scholastic achievement. We appealed because she is definitely a different child and we thought the program would be right for her. The WISC had a similar score profile (very high non-verbal and above average verbal). She got in. She's out of FCPS now, and does amazingly well in math and science (and decently in language arts).
Anonymous
10/06/2015 08:56
Subject: Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm asking bc dh and I are having a disagreement about prepping my kid for the entry tests. Our child will qualify - but my husband thinks we should prep him anyway bc teachers will look at the scores for placement within aap. Our child hold can hold his own with 4th graders in math, reading, and is very talented in computer programming and we had discussions last year with the school about having him skip first grade so they school is aware. But I feel like it is a waste of time since he will likely crush the test without prep.
If parents are worrying about placement "within AAP" we have truly lost the plot here in FCPS.
+1
Anonymous
10/06/2015 08:44
Subject: Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
Anonymous wrote:I'm asking bc dh and I are having a disagreement about prepping my kid for the entry tests. Our child will qualify - but my husband thinks we should prep him anyway bc teachers will look at the scores for placement within aap. Our child hold can hold his own with 4th graders in math, reading, and is very talented in computer programming and we had discussions last year with the school about having him skip first grade so they school is aware. But I feel like it is a waste of time since he will likely crush the test without prep.
If parents are worrying about placement "within AAP" we have truly lost the plot here in FCPS.
Anonymous
10/06/2015 08:43
Subject: Re:Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
DS63 wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP you have analyzed the sytem very well and put some good infact great points.
Why does system allow parents to do referral is because parents spend most of time with kids than anyone else. And it is possible that parents might have noticed some traits in their children which others might not have.
But in current system what is happening is all parents are observing that their children aregifted. Can it be really true or is it just that parents want to put their kids in AAP for bragging rights or not be shameful saying their kid is GE or for whatever reasons known to them.
If you notice IQ of all children here start with 130
I never heard/read in this forum with IQs like 110 ,100,107. Though 100 is supposed to be most common.
Actually, average in FCPS is above 100, probably. Using the SAT's as a poxy, the average score in FCPS is about 1 standard deviation above the national average, or probably about 115.
At the reason why you don't see lower IQ's here is because 1) people lie, and 2) AAP kids will not have sub 115 IQ's/.
I call BS. I have known at least 3 kids who had COGATs in the low teens.
Anonymous
10/06/2015 08:38
Subject: Re:Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm a third grade teacher, and I usually hear from our AART at some point about which students are parent/teacher referrals and which students qualify on their own. It's pretty rare though[u] that there is a kid we all know has no business being in who was pushed through by a savvy parent.
Either the admission process is a farce (in which case, a "savvy parent" can push a child through) OR the admission process is legitimate and therefore only kids who qualify get through. Which is it?
If there are 6+ people approving each child who is admitted in addition to standardized test scores, then tell me how, exactly, is a parent able to push their undeserving child through?
Isn't it possible to have a third option: mistakes slip through the cracks. Doctors inadvertently don't diagnose a malignancy. Lawyers forget to file an important document on time. A kid is approved when he shouldn't be. (By "shouldn't be," that could be defined as him having an amazingly high IQ but zero ability to do the work (maybe OCD, maybe lazy, maybe high anxiety,etc.) - so reasonable minds could differ as to whether the kid should be in. Regardless. it isn't as black and white as you're trying to make it. Since the teacher said it is "rare" this occurs, why on earth would you think the admission process is a farce?
That sounds like one of those highly gifted kids the program was designed to serve. AAP is not an achievement program. Those kids do fine on their own. This is what has ruined gifted learning in FCPS.
Anonymous
10/05/2015 21:44
Subject: Re:Do aap teachers look at the test scores once the kids are in?
In our LLIV program, I was more than once that the teacher does not know which kids are level IV vs. Principal designees. I would therefore highly doubt they know the scores. From what I have heard, they really don't care about the scores.