Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks to all of you. I think several of you hit the nail on the head when you observed that I am already pretty much estranged from my parents. The idea I was considering was making it a formal and explicit estrangement, which I honestly don't consider to be the best course for many reasons (one of which being that the estrangement would be yet another strike against me in their eyes).

Therapy is a great idea, and I hope to get it sometime soon.

It was very validating for me to hear from those of you who believe my parents' actions were inappropriate. One technique that they have continually employed with me is "gas lighting" -- rather than owning up to their bad behavior, they always turn it back around on me as though I am just being oversensitive, crazy, or even malicious.

OP, I have grown up in a family with an emotionally abusive mother and a good father, but one who didn't understand enough to protect me. And yet, I can also recognize that despite the emotional abuse, my mom loves me in her own way and has been tremendously supportive at times. My brother formally cut himself off from my parents, which has been very painful for all of us. I have two children and am divorced from their mentally ill dad. If I had a parent who engaged in ongoing sexual or physical violence, then I would consider estrangement, but, IMO, short of that, estrangement is a horrible example to set. I want my kids to learn to deal with people by varying their interactions, not just making a black/white on/off decision. We are beset in life by people who don't love us the way we want to be loved, don't treat us the way we want to be treated, etc. Sometimes they are parents, sometimes they are lovers, friends, colleagues, etc. IMO, it is better to learn to deal with this by thinking about what the person is doing and why, recognizing what can and can't be changed, recognizing how one's own needs can get met or where else to go to get those needs met, and learning to communicate in a clear non-hostile non-dramatic way and learning to set reasonable boundaries, etc.

I have chosen to take what has been given by my parents, and set up boundaries for the rest. IMO, I don't think estrangement is the answer, except in pretty narrow circumstances.

OP here. Thanks to all of you. I think several of you hit the nail on the head when you observed that I am already pretty much estranged from my parents. The idea I was considering was making it a formal and explicit estrangement, which I honestly don't consider to be the best course for many reasons (one of which being that the estrangement would be yet another strike against me in their eyes).

Therapy is a great idea, and I hope to get it sometime soon.

It was very validating for me to hear from those of you who believe my parents' actions were inappropriate. One technique that they have continually employed with me is "gas lighting" -- rather than owning up to their bad behavior, they always turn it back around on me as though I am just being oversensitive, crazy, or even malicious.

You call them kind and good people, then give stunning examples of cruelty. They are not kind and good people TO YOU. Distance yourself as needed.

Your family sounds emotionally abusive. I second going to therapy and thinking about how to have strong boundaries with them.

I'm so sorry, OP. Try the book Toxic Parents, and please seek therapy if you haven't already done so.

The Adverse Childhood Experience survey (http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/acestudy/) includes the question, "1. While you were growing up, during your first 18 years of life:
1. Did a parent or other adult in the household often or very often… Swear at you, insult you, put you down, or humiliate you?" It also had the question, "4. Did you often or very often feel that … No one in your family loved you or thought you were important or special?" Finally, it had the question, "8. Did you live with anyone who was a problem drinker or alcoholic or who used street drugs?"

OP, your short post would lead me to believe that you would answer yes to these 3 questions. A score of 3 out of 10 is statistically correlated with heightened risk of drug use (read: your 20s) and also serious long-term physical ailments, which are detailed here: http://acestoohigh.com/got-your-ace-score/ and here: http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/acestudy/outcomes.html

A lot of people don't understand what toxic childhood stress does to you, but I understand. Don't let anyone here belittle your pain. It literally has probably lowered your life expectancy by years. If someone shot you in the chest and left you with crippling injuries that caused you to die a decade sooner than you otherwise would have, would you be debating your estrangement from them?

Look at the statistics, and then re-consider your parents' approach to you. And get thee to a therapist stat.

Anonymous wrote:You should tread carefully here, OP. Once you do this, you can't take it back. Even if you change your mind and try to patch things up, it will never be forgotten. You should at least first have a conversation with them (without raising the estrangement issue) about their behavior, and let them know how hurt you were/are over some of the things they have said and done. (Except for the car thing; you're being way too sensitive about that).

16:56 again. I almost 100 percent guarantee that the parents will take zero responsibility and this will not help at all. OP's parents (I have a pair like them) aren't rational, self-reflecting people.

However, OP, I do think going through this process at least once if you haven't already and trying to get through to them is an important part of the process of breaking free from them.

If you lay your truth out there and they won't hear it or they don't/can't take any responsibility or change their behavior, well you know you tried. And then you really will feel more ready to let go of emotional ties to them.

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to make a formal announcement. Just stop inviting them to things. Stop initiating contact. You'll probably just see them at whatever big family events. Be polite but that's all. When they say things that are just awful, just leave. I wouldn't cut off contact, I'd just stop initiating it entirely.

This.

But the absolutely critical piece of this is to stop caring what they say and think of you. Go to therapy. When you reach this place where they don't have an emotional hold on you, you will be set free. There will be no need to do anything dramatic or avoid them. You will see them and they will say crappy stuff and you genuinely won't care at all. Or ideally, you and your DH or a close sibling can laugh about the dopey things they say later.

The only thing you can control is how you react to them.

You should tread carefully here, OP. Once you do this, you can't take it back. Even if you change your mind and try to patch things up, it will never be forgotten. You should at least first have a conversation with them (without raising the estrangement issue) about their behavior, and let them know how hurt you were/are over some of the things they have said and done. (Except for the car thing; you're being way too sensitive about that).

You don't need to make a formal announcement. Just stop inviting them to things. Stop initiating contact. You'll probably just see them at whatever big family events. Be polite but that's all. When they say things that are just awful, just leave. I wouldn't cut off contact, I'd just stop initiating it entirely.

Anonymous wrote:I'm not trying to be mean but I think your dad is hilarious. He has my sense of humor. The car thing, I would forever tease you about that everytime you crossed the street. Maybe it's his way of loving you, by teasing you.

I think her dad is cruel, but the comment was funny the way he timed it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not trying to be mean but I think your dad is hilarious. He has my sense of humor. The car thing, I would forever tease you about that everytime you crossed the street. Maybe it's his way of loving you, by teasing you.

Your kid gets hit by a car and you'd make fun of your kid for the rest of childhood that they don't know how to cross the street? That's disgusting.

OP, unless you're ready to sit out of wedding, funerals, and grandma's 80th birthday party, then I think quietly backing out of a direct relationship with your parents is a better move than proactively telling them that you're cutting them out of your life. If you simply stop engaging in one-on-one exchanges, then you will get what you want, but can politely exchange greetings and otherwise ignore each other at family functions. It puts everyone else in an awkward position when you announce that you're threw with your parents - now your siblings will have to choose who to invite to Christmas. If you're okay with that fall out, then go ahead. If you like to keep your siblings out of it, then just stop engaging with your parents - you'll run into them at family functions and that can be the extent of it. They won't be meaningfully involved in your life.

It's not disgusting at all. It's just teasing and being funny. I get made fun of all the time especially by my dad because I got shot. I'm really bad at dodging bullets, it's like an inside joke.

Here is the difference, PP: it is not possible to dodge a bullet. that is the joke. It's clear that whatever the intent, OP took her father's teasing as cruelty. That makes it cruel. I had a stepdad who teased a lot too, and I could take it, but my sister is still hurt by some of it. it's ok to tease kids if they can take it but not ok to tease them if they can't. It's the adult's job to not traumatize their kids, not the kids' job to toughen up.

OP--I've been where you are with a problem dad and trying to figure out how much of him I could have in my life. So take it from me when I say that you should get therapy at this point. Male therapist if you can since your problem sounds like it's mostly w the male parent. This is a perfect problem for therapy. The type doesn't matter, just that you click with the therapist. It will help you work out the best way to protect yourself and move forward with your life. As the posts demonstrate, you have a lot of options, from firmer boundaries to a wordless fade to letting them know why they are being cut out of your life. You need help to figure out which of these options is actually going to make you feel better.

Congratulations on all you've accomplished despite these people's emotional toxicity.

Anonymous wrote:I could have written this post myself except switch the roles of my parents. Everything rings so true, including the rebellion you had, the ensuing blame you've endured for it. (I am still blamed to this day at age 35) I've come to realize that I am an adult child of an alcoholic and it deeply effected me, my coping skills, my guilt, my need to make everything o.k. for everyone all the time. My dad is a functioning alcoholic that has always held a successful job and he's not physically abusive but I'm still very affected by it.

Adult children of alcoholics (ACoAs) can and often do suffer from some features of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) that are the direct result of living with the traumatizing effects of addiction. Years after we leave behind our alcoholic homes, we carry the impact of living with addiction with us.

I think it would be helpful to you to do some reading about this or visit an al-anon meeting. http://alcoholism.about.com/od/books/tp/acoabooks.htm

I think the guilt of estrangement would bother me more than dealing with my parents and setting healthy boundaries.

Good luck OP. This is a tough one and I feel you.

This is good advice, OP. Are you in therapy? Have you tried attending Al-Anon meetings for Adult Children of Alcoholics? I think you could use some support while you're trying to figure out what to do and when you carry your plan out. I found that establishing boundaries with my mother helped improve my relationship with her. Maybe you just need to figure out where your boundaries are and you don't have to completely cut your parents off. But you may need to cut them off for awhile or permanently. Ultimately you're the one who has to decide what amount of contact you're willing to accept. As you know, your parents are not going to change but you can change your behavior and you can decide how much you're willing to expose yourself to such unacceptable treatment. Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not trying to be mean but I think your dad is hilarious. He has my sense of humor. The car thing, I would forever tease you about that everytime you crossed the street. Maybe it's his way of loving you, by teasing you.

Your kid gets hit by a car and you'd make fun of your kid for the rest of childhood that they don't know how to cross the street? That's disgusting.

OP, unless you're ready to sit out of wedding, funerals, and grandma's 80th birthday party, then I think quietly backing out of a direct relationship with your parents is a better move than proactively telling them that you're cutting them out of your life. If you simply stop engaging in one-on-one exchanges, then you will get what you want, but can politely exchange greetings and otherwise ignore each other at family functions. It puts everyone else in an awkward position when you announce that you're threw with your parents - now your siblings will have to choose who to invite to Christmas. If you're okay with that fall out, then go ahead. If you like to keep your siblings out of it, then just stop engaging with your parents - you'll run into them at family functions and that can be the extent of it. They won't be meaningfully involved in your life.

It's not disgusting at all. It's just teasing and being funny. I get made fun of all the time especially by my dad because I got shot. I'm really bad at dodging bullets, it's like an inside joke.