Anonymous wrote:Op ~ they get God brownie points for recruiting.

And maybe a very little, they are concerned for your soul.

Do NOT take-on their child as your project. Be careful. Don't think you know what's best. That is not your place, just as these neighbors pressuring you, is not their place. If your children are friends, than yes, include the child. but do not make this a "special" circumstance. Their child is just a friend like any other friend. And it may not last. You giving gifts to them is a little odd. You aren't close to them. Appears you are trying too hard - and maybe in the wrong direction with that.

Thanks PP for advice re. Jesus Camp. Something is having them up their recruiting activities - exponentially - we're going to put a stop to it.

I think I understand what you mean about the presents - fair to raise that question. When we've had foreign neighbors, here in the US and abroad, they've often brought us small gifts, just something small as a friendly gesture. We never found it weird, only fun and interesting. A taiwainese neighbor in the US used to pop over with some dumplings or other item to celebrate their new year etc. She never came in the house just dropped this stuff off. It was so sweet and charming! Always something small but a kind and unconditional act. In the UK our next door neighbors would bring little food items too or flower from the garden, or a little note that they were happy we were their neighbors, etc. It seems to be something from other cultures that our family has adopted but yes probably weird in some U.S. contexts. Yep things like this could contribute to a "no boundaries" perception - if someone weren't familiar with such gestures and were confused by them which yes now that you mention it they probably are.

Maybe b/c they're being taught (I read that Four Spiritual Ways - thanks PP) to find an in for recruiting, they found the openness unnerving b/c the Fundamentalist resources you've all recommended all talk about how to persist when your audience seems disinterested. The religious pressure approach would definitely be at odds with unconditional graciousness unless someone were very advanced in their studies which I can tell they're not or they wouldn't be sending daughter over to do it!

The daughter lately seems super confused. She'll glare at me and be haughty but then invite us to prayer group and ask the boys to play. I'll be consistent and I'm guessing she'll know over time I'm a supportive adult...if a horrible sinner!!!!

One time in college my roommate and I pretended not to be home when Camp Crusade reps came knocking on the door. We heard them try the door knob. We wanted to see what they were up to so we hid in the closet! They snooped around our room while we were hiding! It was insane. We went to tell campus police after they left. Creepy. These must be same ilk... and to me, un-Christian.

Op ~ they get God brownie points for recruiting.

And maybe a very little, they are concerned for your soul.

Do NOT take-on their child as your project. Be careful. Don't think you know what's best. That is not your place, just as these neighbors pressuring you, is not their place. If your children are friends, than yes, include the child. but do not make this a "special" circumstance. Their child is just a friend like any other friend. And it may not last. You giving gifts to them is a little odd. You aren't close to them. Appears you are trying too hard - and maybe in the wrong direction with that.

OP, have you seen the documentary "Jesus Camp"? It definitely helped me understand the fundamentalist neighbors I had growing up. Unless the older girl's behavior is totally atrocious, I would aim to keep that line of communication open for her, so many people I know with fundamentalist Christian upbringings suffered abuse as kids/teens and having an 'outsider' adult she feels comfortable confiding in may been really helpful to her.

Anonymous wrote:You sound like you don't like them at all.

Your 7 yo is about to get into more sports and clubs and camps. Just use that as a natural way to distance yourselves from this family.

I do like them actually or at least want to- I have hope anyway - or would not be writing for advice. Interesting that I may sound like I've already given up on liking them! Thanks for pointing that out. Thats a sad part - that we have to distance ourselves to stop this nonsense.

Actually the dad is comes across as very sensible and easy-going but it occurred to me last week that he is in sales so that may account for it. It can't all be coming from the mother. We have had a nice relationship mostly, only the mom stays back and out of the picture I'd assumed it was on acct of being busy with the little ones so of course I didn't begrudge her that (ok when they told me she'd stopped breastfeeding I thought - ok you have time to be friendly now - come on). I only got confused that she does seem to show up when my husband's out and finds an excuse to talk with him while mostly avoiding me. So sadly I'm understanding now I must be seen as the "sinner" - I am the woman of the house after all.

Well we'll bring meals over when the baby's born and neighborly stuff like that but otherwise reel things in. Plus our sons are sick and tired of the religion questions. They're both very spiritual on their own and instinctively know its wrong for someone to pressure them this way.

Anonymous wrote:You need to beat them at their own game.

I would brand their eldest child with the sign of the cross on its forehead.

YOU are funny! Thanks for that!!!

You need to beat them at their own game.

I would brand their eldest child with the sign of the cross on its forehead.

You sound like you don't like them at all.

Your 7 yo is about to get into more sports and clubs and camps. Just use that as a natural way to distance yourselves from this family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at some point you could gently say that their pressure is borderline rude and also a slight on your chosen denomination. Ask them how they'd like it if you were a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon or whatever and we're constantly pressuring them to join your faith. Said gently, with a smile, but deadly seriously may finally get through to them. You may just have to sever ties if they keep it up.

Unfortunately it may come to that - I've understated the judgmental way they're issuing their "invitations". Per the excellent advice, we'll keep trying the firm simple message/repeat in hope it works. Still, we are curious to know what in their teachings or beliefs drives them to boldly pursue this. We sense that when/if we do settle on a local church they'll keep asking....because ours won't be good enough...won't be "Christian" enough.

Theyw want you to be saved and think you can't be unless you believe exactly the way they do. They are trying to help you out -- eternal salvation or eternal flames.

Anonymous wrote:With a fourth child on the way, I'd be concerned that this family is starting to think of your home as a defacto daycare. Beyond the religion selling, this would bother me too. You need to get a handle on this before yet another child is born.

Yep. Time to draw some boundaries with these folks!

Pick which one is more annoying...I think the kids over all the time might be the bigger issue, really.

Tell the parents that you'd like some more time just as your family and that you'd prefer not to have as many drop-bys. Tell the seven year old that it's not a good time and send her home. Walk the three year old back over to their house.

And consider investing in a fence!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at some point you could gently say that their pressure is borderline rude and also a slight on your chosen denomination. Ask them how they'd like it if you were a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon or whatever and we're constantly pressuring them to join your faith. Said gently, with a smile, but deadly seriously may finally get through to them. You may just have to sever ties if they keep it up.

Unfortunately it may come to that - I've understated the judgmental way they're issuing their "invitations". Per the excellent advice, we'll keep trying the firm simple message/repeat in hope it works. Still, we are curious to know what in their teachings or beliefs drives them to boldly pursue this. We sense that when/if we do settle on a local church they'll keep asking....because ours won't be good enough...won't be "Christian" enough.

I grew up in a mix of fundamentalist/evangelical Christian churches and organizations. We were taught that anyone not in line with our precise religious convictions was going to hell and were horrible sinners. I don't think there is much you can say that they will respect. We were forced to go door to door as children with a little book called "The Four Spiritual Laws". Google that and it may help explain why they are so forceful. I could go on with examples, but don't want to bore you. We went to Christian and Missionary Alliance Church and my parents work for Campus Crusade for Christ, now called Power To Change. We were also involved in Pentecostal, Baptist, etc. events. I'm not sure of your neighbour's church type but it sounds similar. I am not a frequent church goer as an adult!

It helped me learn boundaries early. I couldn't believe how rude my parents were to people. We couldn't go to the zoo as a family without them preaching to strangers! I knew church families that had many kids taking advantage as your neighbours are and if I lived there, I'd build a great fence and not put up with that rude toddler. My family was strict and disciplined (including lots of abuse), but many are sort of lazy and don't respect others. Some functions at church are hours and kids get used to just making themselves too at home where they don't belong. I don't know if that makes sense. It was a dysfunctional childhood to say the least.

As an adult I've had neighbours like yours, but I nip it in the bud so fast. You are right that even if you pick a church, it won't be good enough. You have to fall down on their altar and be saved from your sins, etc. Sorry, hard to not be cynical.

Thank you for sharing your experiences! this is so helpful! I'll have to take a closer read of the Four Spiritual Laws later but on first glance you are right - they must be living according to it exactly. Wow - it explains so much of the behavior!

For example #2 "Man was created to have fellowship with God; but, because of his own stubborn self-will, he chose to go his own independent way and fellowship with God was broken. This self-will, characterized by an attitude of active rebellion or passive indifference, is an evidence of what the Bible calls sin."

Yikes then it goes on in more detail about such sinners - obviously I've been placed in the category and probably my husband is savable b/c he's a man and my children b/c as their mother it is I who have led them astray....WOW. How strong you must be to have moved away from this exclusive and prejudicial thinking. Any more thoughts you have I'd love to hear. Recommendations on how to handle it to - I really appreciate it.

Find Jesus use a paragraph

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at some point you could gently say that their pressure is borderline rude and also a slight on your chosen denomination. Ask them how they'd like it if you were a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon or whatever and we're constantly pressuring them to join your faith. Said gently, with a smile, but deadly seriously may finally get through to them. You may just have to sever ties if they keep it up.

Unfortunately it may come to that - I've understated the judgmental way they're issuing their "invitations". Per the excellent advice, we'll keep trying the firm simple message/repeat in hope it works. Still, we are curious to know what in their teachings or beliefs drives them to boldly pursue this. We sense that when/if we do settle on a local church they'll keep asking....because ours won't be good enough...won't be "Christian" enough.

I grew up in a mix of fundamentalist/evangelical Christian churches and organizations. We were taught that anyone not in line with our precise religious convictions was going to hell and were horrible sinners. I don't think there is much you can say that they will respect. We were forced to go door to door as children with a little book called "The Four Spiritual Laws". Google that and it may help explain why they are so forceful. I could go on with examples, but don't want to bore you. We went to Christian and Missionary Alliance Church and my parents work for Campus Crusade for Christ, now called Power To Change. We were also involved in Pentecostal, Baptist, etc. events. I'm not sure of your neighbour's church type but it sounds similar. I am not a frequent church goer as an adult!

It helped me learn boundaries early. I couldn't believe how rude my parents were to people. We couldn't go to the zoo as a family without them preaching to strangers! I knew church families that had many kids taking advantage as your neighbours are and if I lived there, I'd build a great fence and not put up with that rude toddler. My family was strict and disciplined (including lots of abuse), but many are sort of lazy and don't respect others. Some functions at church are hours and kids get used to just making themselves too at home where they don't belong. I don't know if that makes sense. It was a dysfunctional childhood to say the least.

As an adult I've had neighbours like yours, but I nip it in the bud so fast. You are right that even if you pick a church, it won't be good enough. You have to fall down on their altar and be saved from your sins, etc. Sorry, hard to not be cynical.

OP, I think it's great that you are being generous with your time and home with the older child (and tolerant of the toddler). If it were me, I would be really put off by a family that is more than happy to have you (essentially) babysit and take their child on adventures, but cannot even bother to speak with you or acknowledge you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With a fourth child on the way, I'd be concerned that this family is starting to think of your home as a defacto daycare. Beyond the religion selling, this would bother me too. You need to get a handle on this before yet another child is born.

YES you figured out another concern...! Luckily our yards are large enough that we treat them like additional rooms in the house so they're to stay outside but still...they try to get indoors when possible. I've tried not to judge the constant spontaneous "playdates" as desperate attempts at socialization. And not everyone can afford the many after school activities on offer. But they also have no one else over unless its a church-related event which we know is on a rotating schedule b/c they've invited us. Its worrying also because we've lived in other countries and I've had friends of many ethnicities, nationalities, religions and the mothers have all believed in playdates. Playdates are essential to socialization unless a child gets this through daycare or relatives or otherwise spends the day getting outside-the-home experiences. This is the first household I've ever been close to that does not have regular playdates/daycare/supplemental experience exposure. Again, I'm attributing this to their religious beliefs but could be wrong.

And often I'm thinking if the mom would just acknowledge their affection for / interest in our home, which they obviously have, it might help smooth things over. Its the twisted "I'm going to pretend I don't know my kids adore you all and your home while I try to talk them out of it until you fundamentally follow the bible or at least join our church (where I can control you)..." approach. What most posters are assuming too is that the kids are getting these messages about us at home. I'd guessed that as well - thanks for the reality check. So it had stung that they praise my husband and talk about how nice he is and treat me like the meany. My husband has caught on though and is happy to take on "bad cop" role.

I think the repetitive messages everyone has shared are our best approach. They're ante-drama. They're boring and factual and clear. If they ignore such unambiguous messages we can consider a Plan B.

It does sound like you're also watching their comings and goings (or not)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With a fourth child on the way, I'd be concerned that this family is starting to think of your home as a defacto daycare. Beyond the religion selling, this would bother me too. You need to get a handle on this before yet another child is born.

YES you figured out another concern...! Luckily our yards are large enough that we treat them like additional rooms in the house so they're to stay outside but still...they try to get indoors when possible. I've tried not to judge the constant spontaneous "playdates" as desperate attempts at socialization. And not everyone can afford the many after school activities on offer. But they also have no one else over unless its a church-related event which we know is on a rotating schedule b/c they've invited us. Its worrying also because we've lived in other countries and I've had friends of many ethnicities, nationalities, religions and the mothers have all believed in playdates. Playdates are essential to socialization unless a child gets this through daycare or relatives or otherwise spends the day getting outside-the-home experiences. This is the first household I've ever been close to that does not have regular playdates/daycare/supplemental experience exposure. Again, I'm attributing this to their religious beliefs but could be wrong.

And often I'm thinking if the mom would just acknowledge their affection for / interest in our home, which they obviously have, it might help smooth things over. Its the twisted "I'm going to pretend I don't know my kids adore you all and your home while I try to talk them out of it until you fundamentally follow the bible or at least join our church (where I can control you)..." approach. What most posters are assuming too is that the kids are getting these messages about us at home. I'd guessed that as well - thanks for the reality check. So it had stung that they praise my husband and talk about how nice he is and treat me like the meany. My husband has caught on though and is happy to take on "bad cop" role.

I think the repetitive messages everyone has shared are our best approach. They're ante-drama. They're boring and factual and clear. If they ignore such unambiguous messages we can consider a Plan B.

And my husband has likely escaped the harshness thus far because he's "the Man of the house" which of course is fundamental to fundamentalist religious beliefs be they Christian, Muslim or Jewish.