Anonymous
09/08/2015 11:51
Subject: Gifted/Special Needs
Just an idea on the social issues -- is there a gifted test in school in your area? I went to one growing up, and that tends to be where all the "freaks and geeks" (I say this lovingly) go -- many of us were kids that did not fit in well to the mainstream and had little oddities (or large oddities, depending!). It was a much more tolerant environment--the chess club and mathletes were considered pretty cool, and everyone had their own quirks. If you just moved his school, I'm not sure I'd move him again, but it's something to think about.
Also, I'd talk to the teachers and find out where he can find some other kids that might be like him. Speaking from experience, if often seems like the "cool kids" are everywhere....but there's really other kids just like you that are hiding someplace, and you just need to find them and band together. Things like chess clubs, science clubs, math Olympiad programs (if there's not one, maybe you can start one as a parent volunteer) are all great for this. And sometimes it turns out that one of the cool kids is actually a secret math geek.
One thing I do worry about with private schools is that there will be too many "cool kids." It's my own personal prejudice against rich people -- they all seem so well-dressed and socially competent! I'm trying to get over it.
Also, you probably are already doing this, but you need to work with the teachers to figure out what the triggers are, and a way to mediate them. If the problem is the transition away from favored activity to disfavored activity, maybe a 10 minute warning, or beeping watch...? Maybe there's anxiety around particular things, like PE, that can be addressed with some sort of accommodation?
Also, I'd talk to the teachers and find out where he can find some other kids that might be like him. Speaking from experience, if often seems like the "cool kids" are everywhere....but there's really other kids just like you that are hiding someplace, and you just need to find them and band together. Things like chess clubs, science clubs, math Olympiad programs (if there's not one, maybe you can start one as a parent volunteer) are all great for this. And sometimes it turns out that one of the cool kids is actually a secret math geek.
One thing I do worry about with private schools is that there will be too many "cool kids." It's my own personal prejudice against rich people -- they all seem so well-dressed and socially competent! I'm trying to get over it.
Also, you probably are already doing this, but you need to work with the teachers to figure out what the triggers are, and a way to mediate them. If the problem is the transition away from favored activity to disfavored activity, maybe a 10 minute warning, or beeping watch...? Maybe there's anxiety around particular things, like PE, that can be addressed with some sort of accommodation?
Anonymous
09/08/2015 11:09
Subject: Gifted/Special Needs
This is 10:56 .. I forgot to add, his neuro-psych did some testing for Asperger's but said he is actually very perceptive and good at reading emotions when he focuses. The rigidity, problems with transitions, emotional dysregulation and 0 to meltdown in 5 seconds flat can come with "just" ADHD.
Anonymous
09/08/2015 10:56
Subject: Gifted/Special Needs
He sounds so much like my son. Mine is starting 2nd but has the same issues with emotional regulation and impulsivity. He also has dyslexia and ODD which complicate the academic picture as well. It's heart-breaking listening to a 7yo telling you there's no place for him in the world. He's in a very supportive small private school. His teacher is able to individualize his math and science and he will have separate tutoring for language arts since she has no background teaching for dyslexia. His psychologist said that focusing on the dyslexia should help his behavior and anxiety since he's internalized "I can't read" and it's very frustrating for him.
Strattera has helped immensely so long as we're able to stay at a higher dose. His behavior and temper are greatly improved. His psychiatrist is also talking about switching to Zoloft around Thanksgiving to see if directly treating the anxiety will help. Because of weight issues, he's unable to take stimulants.
Strattera has helped immensely so long as we're able to stay at a higher dose. His behavior and temper are greatly improved. His psychiatrist is also talking about switching to Zoloft around Thanksgiving to see if directly treating the anxiety will help. Because of weight issues, he's unable to take stimulants.
Anonymous
09/07/2015 19:56
Subject: Gifted/Special Needs
That sounds like a tough situation. I think you really need a good child psychiatrist. Have you thought about medicating from the anxiety angle?
Anonymous
09/07/2015 17:52
Subject: Re:Gifted/Special Needs
Meds (focalin XR) and a tutor have been a godsend for our DD - she also has ADHD/processing speed issues/high IQ and homework was torture for both her and me. The tutor (a former special needs teacher) manages to do wonders. It is still a mystery to me how she does it.
Anonymous
09/07/2015 17:06
Subject: Re:Gifted/Special Needs
Anonymous wrote:I've been a 2e child, and a teacher in a program for kids with 2e, so my advice comes from that perspective.
I'm wondering why you feel that your son needs to be working at that academic level? In my experience, there are some kids with 2e and difficulties with self regulation who find academics that challenge them very organizing. But for many kids, even very bright kids, academic challenge just compounds the challenge associated with being in the classroom. For those kids, an environment that meets their emotional needs, and reduces the academic challenge, is what lets them develop their self regulation, and executive functioning skills they'll need in the long term. Your description of frequent meltdowns over academics makes me think he might be in the second category.
From my experience, a child who is significantly gifted, and has age appropriate academic skills and self regulation and executive functioning skills, will generally progress quite quickly when they get to high school, and will be well prepared for a rigorous college. On the other hand, if a child doesn't develop their self regulation skills because they're putting all their energy into academics, and doesn't develop their executive functioning skills because they're dependent on tutors and parents to get themselves through school, then they often fall apart when they hit the demands of high school.
I guess that what I'm trying to say is that I'd prioritize a school that meets his social and emotional needs, and develops his skills in those areas, over a school that pushes him academically. Long term, my experience tells me that choice will result in stronger social/emotional AND academic skills down the road.
OP here- this is an interesting perspective-- I want to address it because it is something we considered. DS's current school is not his 1st school. We initially had him in a private school that had excellent academics but was very focused on a specific curriculum for each grade. DS is strong in language arts but exceptional in math- his broad math score on the WJ IV was nearly 180. I'm mentioning it because it's so extreme. His first grade teacher provided DS with advanced math and little instruction- he flailed because his EF was not high enough to work independently. She put him back with the regular class, then complained that he spent his time completely inattentive to classroom work and instruction.
It was our first insight that there may not be a perfect solution- we decided to go for the stronger academic stimulation and scaffold the EF and emotional/behavioral. There may be points with DS where we need to scale back academics and focus more on emotional. For instance, my DH and I were talking about a temporary placement at a therapeutic school in our area, if it's clear that DS isn't ready to meet the demands of middle school. My only insight into these hard questions is that it may not be linear with DS- there have been times when he readily takes on hard challenges and other times (like this AM) that he melts down because the remote control doesn't work properly.
I will absolutely agree that if we consistently and wrongly prioritize academic success over emotional development DS won't succeed at either one.
Anonymous
09/07/2015 13:37
Subject: Re:Gifted/Special Needs
I've been a 2e child, and a teacher in a program for kids with 2e, so my advice comes from that perspective.
I'm wondering why you feel that your son needs to be working at that academic level? In my experience, there are some kids with 2e and difficulties with self regulation who find academics that challenge them very organizing. But for many kids, even very bright kids, academic challenge just compounds the challenge associated with being in the classroom. For those kids, an environment that meets their emotional needs, and reduces the academic challenge, is what lets them develop their self regulation, and executive functioning skills they'll need in the long term. Your description of frequent meltdowns over academics makes me think he might be in the second category.
From my experience, a child who is significantly gifted, and has age appropriate academic skills and self regulation and executive functioning skills, will generally progress quite quickly when they get to high school, and will be well prepared for a rigorous college. On the other hand, if a child doesn't develop their self regulation skills because they're putting all their energy into academics, and doesn't develop their executive functioning skills because they're dependent on tutors and parents to get themselves through school, then they often fall apart when they hit the demands of high school.
I guess that what I'm trying to say is that I'd prioritize a school that meets his social and emotional needs, and develops his skills in those areas, over a school that pushes him academically. Long term, my experience tells me that choice will result in stronger social/emotional AND academic skills down the road.
I'm wondering why you feel that your son needs to be working at that academic level? In my experience, there are some kids with 2e and difficulties with self regulation who find academics that challenge them very organizing. But for many kids, even very bright kids, academic challenge just compounds the challenge associated with being in the classroom. For those kids, an environment that meets their emotional needs, and reduces the academic challenge, is what lets them develop their self regulation, and executive functioning skills they'll need in the long term. Your description of frequent meltdowns over academics makes me think he might be in the second category.
From my experience, a child who is significantly gifted, and has age appropriate academic skills and self regulation and executive functioning skills, will generally progress quite quickly when they get to high school, and will be well prepared for a rigorous college. On the other hand, if a child doesn't develop their self regulation skills because they're putting all their energy into academics, and doesn't develop their executive functioning skills because they're dependent on tutors and parents to get themselves through school, then they often fall apart when they hit the demands of high school.
I guess that what I'm trying to say is that I'd prioritize a school that meets his social and emotional needs, and develops his skills in those areas, over a school that pushes him academically. Long term, my experience tells me that choice will result in stronger social/emotional AND academic skills down the road.
Anonymous
09/07/2015 12:35
Subject: Re:Gifted/Special Needs
I would seek out a behavioral therapist where you are. Will the school he's in know adopt suggestions if a behavioral therapist recommends them? You can still adopt systems at home.
I would start to pursue meds.
I would start to pursue meds.
Anonymous
09/07/2015 12:12
Subject: Gifted/Special Needs
Also, the child is 8 and according to our child psychiatrist, meds will stop working after ~4 yrs. For my 8 yr old, we are saving the non-stimulants for his teenage yrs even though Focalin XR does make his hand posturing from the ASD worse.
Anonymous
09/07/2015 12:07
Subject: Re:Gifted/Special Needs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The meltdowns and the blaming us for everything certainly sounds like my HFA kid! Unless he has serious social problems and repetitive behaviors you won't actually get that diagnosis. But I do think ADHD is closely related to the spectrum and maybe apart of it, so reading some things about HFA might give you some insight.
Is his ADHD medicated? All of those sorts of issues are much worse for our DS when his ADHD meds are out of whack.
OP here- he's not medicated, although we're getting ready to make that leap. He does have serious social problems, but they seem to be responding to social skills therapy. He has some transient tics and occasionally shows behavior that is OCD-like, but it comes and goes. Primary issues are impulsivity, emotional regulation, and distractibility.
Even his neuropsych acknowledged that he is complex- two diagnoses language impairment/ADHD and gifted/exceptionally gifted across all areas of intellectual functioning except processing (86th percentile). Apparently, all of these are things are interacting into alphabet soup. His best chance in school is a 2e learning environment, but those are few and far between.
I'm at my wit's end-- I just finished telling my husband that we need to suck it up for an academic, special needs tutor. I don't think I can deal with another year of pencils flying across the room, homework crumpled up, my almost (nine!) year old screaming at me and flailing on the floor. Now, for the first time, he's losing it at school. Last week, he had an altercation with another kid, cried, then ran and hid-- the teachers had to find him and coax him back to class.
If he has tics, stimulant ADHD medications are ill advices. They can make them much worse and may not go away after the medication is terminated- even on a low dose for one week (BTDT). Look into the non-stimulant medicines.
Stimulants are worth a try. I am the pp who was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult and Ritalin gets rid of all my OCD behaviors.
I wouldn't take the chance on the tics getting worse and becoming permanent and/or pushing to more severe Tourette's - especially cine there are non-stimulant options. Stimulant medications are contraindicated for people with existing tics.
OP should get a good child psych and see what they recommend. Transient tics/OCD behaviors can be from the ADHD... And stimulants as a class generally work best for ADHD.
Anonymous
09/07/2015 12:04
Subject: Re:Gifted/Special Needs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The meltdowns and the blaming us for everything certainly sounds like my HFA kid! Unless he has serious social problems and repetitive behaviors you won't actually get that diagnosis. But I do think ADHD is closely related to the spectrum and maybe apart of it, so reading some things about HFA might give you some insight.
Is his ADHD medicated? All of those sorts of issues are much worse for our DS when his ADHD meds are out of whack.
OP here- he's not medicated, although we're getting ready to make that leap. He does have serious social problems, but they seem to be responding to social skills therapy. He has some transient tics and occasionally shows behavior that is OCD-like, but it comes and goes. Primary issues are impulsivity, emotional regulation, and distractibility.
Even his neuropsych acknowledged that he is complex- two diagnoses language impairment/ADHD and gifted/exceptionally gifted across all areas of intellectual functioning except processing (86th percentile). Apparently, all of these are things are interacting into alphabet soup. His best chance in school is a 2e learning environment, but those are few and far between.
I'm at my wit's end-- I just finished telling my husband that we need to suck it up for an academic, special needs tutor. I don't think I can deal with another year of pencils flying across the room, homework crumpled up, my almost (nine!) year old screaming at me and flailing on the floor. Now, for the first time, he's losing it at school. Last week, he had an altercation with another kid, cried, then ran and hid-- the teachers had to find him and coax him back to class.
If he has tics, stimulant ADHD medications are ill advices. They can make them much worse and may not go away after the medication is terminated- even on a low dose for one week (BTDT). Look into the non-stimulant medicines.
Stimulants are worth a try. I am the pp who was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult and Ritalin gets rid of all my OCD behaviors.
I wouldn't take the chance on the tics getting worse and becoming permanent and/or pushing to more severe Tourette's - especially cine there are non-stimulant options. Stimulant medications are contraindicated for people with existing tics.
Anonymous
09/07/2015 11:59
Subject: Gifted/Special Needs
Anonymous wrote:OP here- these are great suggestions. I know that DS isn't unique but it's difficult to be dealing with needs on two ends of a continuum.
I am very concerned about DS's emotional regulation- it's not just the behavior problems-- it causes him not to learn the lessons of hard work. He melts down before he can work through the challenge of learning new material.
He does have social skills and CBT therapy, but it's relatively new, and I know I need to give it time to work. He is not currently taking medication- I'm holding off as long as I can. The emotional issues and impulsivity seem to be getting worse as he ages-- if it doesn't improve this year, DH and I decided we will consider medication.
The reason I brought up HFA is because DS meets a lot of criteria- however, his neuropsych ran some tests that seemed to rule it out.
I'm encouraged to hear that some of this gets better as the kids age. DS is very aware that he's not part of a "group" at school and that no one seeks him out to play/interact. He said he's picked last on the PE teams and has resolved it by spending time in the bathroom during PE. He's told me that he feels "worthless" and that he's "a mistake." It breaks my heart that my bright, creative kid struggles so much.
These are rambles, but I appreciate the chance to get it off of my chest.
Try medication. They are not long acting and you will know pretty much in the first 3 days or so whether they work or not.
Anonymous
09/07/2015 11:57
Subject: Re:Gifted/Special Needs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The meltdowns and the blaming us for everything certainly sounds like my HFA kid! Unless he has serious social problems and repetitive behaviors you won't actually get that diagnosis. But I do think ADHD is closely related to the spectrum and maybe apart of it, so reading some things about HFA might give you some insight.
Is his ADHD medicated? All of those sorts of issues are much worse for our DS when his ADHD meds are out of whack.
OP here- he's not medicated, although we're getting ready to make that leap. He does have serious social problems, but they seem to be responding to social skills therapy. He has some transient tics and occasionally shows behavior that is OCD-like, but it comes and goes. Primary issues are impulsivity, emotional regulation, and distractibility.
Even his neuropsych acknowledged that he is complex- two diagnoses language impairment/ADHD and gifted/exceptionally gifted across all areas of intellectual functioning except processing (86th percentile). Apparently, all of these are things are interacting into alphabet soup. His best chance in school is a 2e learning environment, but those are few and far between.
I'm at my wit's end-- I just finished telling my husband that we need to suck it up for an academic, special needs tutor. I don't think I can deal with another year of pencils flying across the room, homework crumpled up, my almost (nine!) year old screaming at me and flailing on the floor. Now, for the first time, he's losing it at school. Last week, he had an altercation with another kid, cried, then ran and hid-- the teachers had to find him and coax him back to class.
If he has tics, stimulant ADHD medications are ill advices. They can make them much worse and may not go away after the medication is terminated- even on a low dose for one week (BTDT). Look into the non-stimulant medicines.
Stimulants are worth a try. I am the pp who was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult and Ritalin gets rid of all my OCD behaviors.
Anonymous
09/07/2015 11:56
Subject: Gifted/Special Needs
OP here- these are great suggestions. I know that DS isn't unique but it's difficult to be dealing with needs on two ends of a continuum.
I am very concerned about DS's emotional regulation- it's not just the behavior problems-- it causes him not to learn the lessons of hard work. He melts down before he can work through the challenge of learning new material.
He does have social skills and CBT therapy, but it's relatively new, and I know I need to give it time to work. He is not currently taking medication- I'm holding off as long as I can. The emotional issues and impulsivity seem to be getting worse as he ages-- if it doesn't improve this year, DH and I decided we will consider medication.
The reason I brought up HFA is because DS meets a lot of criteria- however, his neuropsych ran some tests that seemed to rule it out.
I'm encouraged to hear that some of this gets better as the kids age. DS is very aware that he's not part of a "group" at school and that no one seeks him out to play/interact. He said he's picked last on the PE teams and has resolved it by spending time in the bathroom during PE. He's told me that he feels "worthless" and that he's "a mistake." It breaks my heart that my bright, creative kid struggles so much.
These are rambles, but I appreciate the chance to get it off of my chest.
I am very concerned about DS's emotional regulation- it's not just the behavior problems-- it causes him not to learn the lessons of hard work. He melts down before he can work through the challenge of learning new material.
He does have social skills and CBT therapy, but it's relatively new, and I know I need to give it time to work. He is not currently taking medication- I'm holding off as long as I can. The emotional issues and impulsivity seem to be getting worse as he ages-- if it doesn't improve this year, DH and I decided we will consider medication.
The reason I brought up HFA is because DS meets a lot of criteria- however, his neuropsych ran some tests that seemed to rule it out.
I'm encouraged to hear that some of this gets better as the kids age. DS is very aware that he's not part of a "group" at school and that no one seeks him out to play/interact. He said he's picked last on the PE teams and has resolved it by spending time in the bathroom during PE. He's told me that he feels "worthless" and that he's "a mistake." It breaks my heart that my bright, creative kid struggles so much.
These are rambles, but I appreciate the chance to get it off of my chest.
Anonymous
09/07/2015 11:49
Subject: Re:Gifted/Special Needs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The meltdowns and the blaming us for everything certainly sounds like my HFA kid! Unless he has serious social problems and repetitive behaviors you won't actually get that diagnosis. But I do think ADHD is closely related to the spectrum and maybe apart of it, so reading some things about HFA might give you some insight.
Is his ADHD medicated? All of those sorts of issues are much worse for our DS when his ADHD meds are out of whack.
OP here- he's not medicated, although we're getting ready to make that leap. He does have serious social problems, but they seem to be responding to social skills therapy. He has some transient tics and occasionally shows behavior that is OCD-like, but it comes and goes. Primary issues are impulsivity, emotional regulation, and distractibility.
Even his neuropsych acknowledged that he is complex- two diagnoses language impairment/ADHD and gifted/exceptionally gifted across all areas of intellectual functioning except processing (86th percentile). Apparently, all of these are things are interacting into alphabet soup. His best chance in school is a 2e learning environment, but those are few and far between.
I'm at my wit's end-- I just finished telling my husband that we need to suck it up for an academic, special needs tutor. I don't think I can deal with another year of pencils flying across the room, homework crumpled up, my almost (nine!) year old screaming at me and flailing on the floor. Now, for the first time, he's losing it at school. Last week, he had an altercation with another kid, cried, then ran and hid-- the teachers had to find him and coax him back to class.
If he has tics, stimulant ADHD medications are ill advices. They can make them much worse and may not go away after the medication is terminated- even on a low dose for one week (BTDT). Look into the non-stimulant medicines.