Anonymous wrote:No, I don't "want" you to say anything. I just think that if you're going to come on this thread and say the that HBW results are less impressive than a few random NJ schools that you ought to be able to offer actual data and facts to support your claim. You haven't done that. What you have offered are links showing only that the NJ schools have lower SAT scores than HBW -- not showing that grads of those schools are accepted in greater numbers at top schools than HBW. Similarly, when I provided actual numbers showing that, in fact, thousands of NJ high school seniors are applying to UVA you, having nothing to counter this, just laugh it off.

What's happening here is that you reacted to my post with a response that had no basis, and when I called you out on it you couldn't back it up. But that's ok. Happens all the time on this board.

My response was based my experience. How can you say that isn't valid?

Sorry that those schools didn't have the data exactly prepared in a manner applicable to this discussion and easily available publicly online. Mountain Lakes wasn't convincing enough? Should I get the latest graduation program from my cousin and scan it in?

Potentially not a reliable source (it's tough to find specific attendance #s), but examples of NJ public HSs with with truly impressive matriculation data. They are much bigger schools but have comparable or greater Ivy rates.
http://midtowndirecthomes.com/2011/11/09/2011-columbia-high-school-graduates-going-to-top-schools/
http://midtowndirecthomes.com/2013/07/01/2013-millburn-high-school-graduates-send-36-to-ivys/
http://midtowndirecthomes.com/2010/09/06/2010-livingston-high-school-sends-11-to-ivys/

Saying "thousands apply" is goofy - NJ is a populous state so that doesn't mean a lot. You think that people in NJ are applying to UVA at the same rate as those in VA? Let's see if we can prove that UVA is "super popular" in NJ like it is here in VA. LOL. What % of NJ HS seniors apply to UVA/WM? What % of VA HS seniors apply there?

OK so I don't have # of graduating seniors for NJ and VA so roughly...
NJ: 2000 applicants / 8.9 million population = .02% application rate
VA: 20000? applicants / 8.3 million population = .24%

So 12x higher rate of applicants from VA? Yes, UVA is much more popular in VA. UVA is not as popular in NJ as is it here in VA. Not sure why you'd even debate that.

Why do people from VA get so weird about UVA/W&M? It's like a cult....


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Congrats to the HBW students - I'm sure they will find success wherever they attend!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And one is attending each of the following schools:

Harvard
Yale

Did you mean 2 for Yale?

Yes. Two HBW members of the class of 2014 are attending Yale, and another is attending Harvard. My mistake on the original post.

No, I don't "want" you to say anything. I just think that if you're going to come on this thread and say the that HBW results are less impressive than a few random NJ schools that you ought to be able to offer actual data and facts to support your claim. You haven't done that. What you have offered are links showing only that the NJ schools have lower SAT scores than HBW -- not showing that grads of those schools are accepted in greater numbers at top schools than HBW. Similarly, when I provided actual numbers showing that, in fact, thousands of NJ high school seniors are applying to UVA you, having nothing to counter this, just laugh it off.

What's happening here is that you reacted to my post with a response that had no basis, and when I called you out on it you couldn't back it up. But that's ok. Happens all the time on this board.

Anonymous wrote:And one is attending each of the following schools:

Harvard
Yale

Did you mean 2 for Yale?

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and one more thing: UVA's first year class in 2014 had 521 New Jersey students and 787 New York students. Given UVA's 22.9 percent out of state offer rate for that year, this means that at least 5000 NJ/NY students applied, probably at least 2000 in NJ students alone. I wouldn't exactly call that "unpopular."

LOL. Are you really debating that VA state schools aren't as popular up in NJ as they are here in VA? I said "not super popular" and "aren't as popular." Definitely people apply. I even know a few. But, obviously, it's not like here where double-digit #s apply or even attend.

And Mountain Lakes just lists schools, not counts. I'm sure there were multiple people attending the lessers. And I'm sure there was overlap between the two years.

Barnard is considered part of Columbia, but OK... And it's silly not to include MIT, Stanford, etc. I haven't counted any of those. Although Bucknell, BU, etc. - we could probably skip those.

Anyhoo, you are right. HBW has AMAZING matriculation data. Is that what you want me to say? LOL.

Oh, and one more thing: UVA's first year class in 2014 had 521 New Jersey students and 787 New York students. Given UVA's 22.9 percent out of state offer rate for that year, this means that at least 5000 NJ/NY students applied, probably at least 2000 in NJ students alone. I wouldn't exactly call that "unpopular."

Barnard isn't Ivy League. It just isn't.

As for Mountain Lakes, while it does show matriculation it's two years' worth of data (so we're talking about nearly 5 times as many students as HBW). And there are a whole lot of less selective colleges on that list besides the fancy ones. Bottom line: sure, it's a nice list, but it doesn't provide enough data to show that Mountain Lakes grads attend better colleges than HBW

Usually those profiles show the enrollment. Not sure why Highlands is different. Check the Mountain Lakes one. Want me to find more?

If you're getting picky, I counted 10 for Northern Highlands. 11 if you count Barnard.

And I really only knew a handful of people who even applied to UVA/W&M. Not super popular up there like it is here (in-state).

Yes, SATs are NOT better. My own high school was nothing special and yet seemed to do much better. To me, that is the weird part. HBW is a good school so I'm surprisingly not impressed by the enrollments.

Further to my post above, I count fewer than ten ACCEPTANCES in the Northern Highlands school to the Ivies, only one to Harvard and zero to Yale, in a class of 354. That means at most that fewer than 10 enrolled in the Ivies, and likely a lot fewer than that since some of these acceptances went to the same student. How again does that make the school's acceptance list better than HBW?

Note 2: Highlands had 3 accepted at UVA. HBW had 7 ENROLL.

Anonymous wrote:NJ poster. Here are profile of high schools near mine. I feel weird posting my school.
http://www.mlschools.org/cms/lib5/NJ01001801/Centricity/Domain/8/MLHSProfile2014-2015%20rev1.pdf

http://www.northernhighlands.org/cms/lib5/NJ01000179/Centricity/Domain/7/CLASS%20OF%202015%20PROFILE%20alternate.pdf

Again, I'd be happy if my kids had the opportunity to attend HBW, but the placement results really aren't that impressive. Not the end of the world though because there are many great colleges out there.

OP here. Here's the thing. The reported SAT scores for both of the NJ schools on the list that you just posted are lower than HBW's. Also, the list of college acceptances is misleading because it shows where students were ACCEPTED, not where they actually ENROLLED. The 2 students from HBW attending Yale were presumably accepted at other highly ranked schools as well, but HBW isn't reporting them because the student isn't attending those schools. When your list says Brown accepted 2 and Harvard accepted 1, it's highly likely that we are only talking about two students at the most, not three -- one accepted to Brown and one accepted to both Brown and Harvard. And in all likelihood the other student accepted by Brown was accepted at Cornell, etc. This is a common trick by high schools to make their lists look better.

The list I gave you for HB is where students actually enrolled, not where they were accepted. One school per student.

As for the poster who wonders why I compared HBW to Langley/McLean, I did it not out of insecurity but because those schools are generally regarded as the best neighborhood high schools in NOVA. Thus, they're the obvious baseline.

NJ poster. Here are profile of high schools near mine. I feel weird posting my school.
http://www.mlschools.org/cms/lib5/NJ01001801/Centricity/Domain/8/MLHSProfile2014-2015%20rev1.pdf

http://www.northernhighlands.org/cms/lib5/NJ01000179/Centricity/Domain/7/CLASS%20OF%202015%20PROFILE%20alternate.pdf

Again, I'd be happy if my kids had the opportunity to attend HBW, but the placement results really aren't that impressive. Not the end of the world though because there are many great colleges out there.

It seemed to me from the list that the college placement at HBW was impressive. It was odd that the OP jumped to making comparisons with Langley and McLean. It seemed a bit insecure, in the way that you often find in Arlington.

As for the NJ school, we only have the PP's assertions and no real evidence of the school's track records. But keep in mind that some towns in NJ are very wealthy with a lot of Ivy alums who work in NYC and Philly. Add to that the fact that Rutgers and other state universities in NJ don't have the reputation of the top Virginia schools and you are going to have a different admissions profile. Frankly, there are more than enough admissions-obsessed parents at Arlington and McLean publics, so if the track record at the NoVa publics sends the NJ grad looking elsewhere, that is more than OK.

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention, NJ, that 8 Ivy League placements isn't better than 3 in a class of 83 . . . especially when, again, the three are all Harvard and Yale.

I just saw a quick list of matriculating schools - not counts by school. The counts are in the graduation program that I didn't see this year (I have a family member who works there now). Anyway, at least 1 per each Ivy. Definitely more for "lesser" Ivies. My graduating year (~10 years ago) we had 5 Penn, 6 Cornell, 2 Columbia, 1 Harvard, 1 Princeton, 1 Brown, no Dartmouth or Yale. I see UVA and W&M on the list but again I don't know the counts this year. Typically a few go to each. Not sure how many apply. They aren't as popular up there obviously.

Anyway, like I said - for a "top" high school I'm surprised that HBW doesn't have better college placement.

Anonymous wrote:So, let's get this straight: because (even assuming it's true) more kids in the Langley/McLean school districts are eligible for and attend TJ that that means that Langley and McLean are better than HB? I don't see the logic.

I'd bet that if HB were open for applications from McLean and Langley that we'd see plenty . . .

As for the poster who said his public high school is sending 200 students to "top" colleges each year, I call BS. Show us the list.

When you learn to read and think more clearly, you'll be able to cut down on the number of arguments you pick with yourself.

Not to mention, NJ, that 8 Ivy League placements isn't better than 3 in a class of 83 . . . especially when, again, the three are all Harvard and Yale.