Anonymous
Post 07/30/2015 19:44     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?
*child psych
Anonymous
Post 07/30/2015 19:43     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?
Could OP (and some of you others! Have budding narcissists? I've decided that narcissism may be on the spectrum (I know a couple). It's definitely not aspergers but k think it's hard wired and may not be treatable in a "normal" Psychotherapy way. I'd love to hear what a hold psych has to say about narcissism and if an 11 year old can be diagnosed with it, and if so, can they be helped? I'm envisioning an early intervention situation, this is a real psychological condition and most of them are just shrugged off as jerks but I think they need a ton of help and they need it early. I'd ask you to really consider this as a possibility OP.
Anonymous
Post 07/30/2015 19:38     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?
OP: I think you are right. Your DS is still pretty self-centered. This is normal. Keep putting examples in front of him of how others live. Do you do any volunteer work as a family? Helping others gives everyone a new perspective and builds empathy in a concrete way.

BTW: I have a DS with ADHD and he has a lot of empathy, but a lot of stubborness. The stubborness is part of the ADHD.
Anonymous
Post 07/30/2015 19:21     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?
I think part of it is probably just not understanding how the idea of taking in foster kids just for the money is wrong.

I mean, he is 11 and probably little idea about how much time and money is spent parenting.
Anonymous
Post 07/30/2015 12:13     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?
Not sure why you are appalled - that's just the detail that interested in him at that moment, which is completely normal at eleven, and a valid question. He probably did absorb the other things you were saying about the foster care system and he'll process that stuff as he matures and experiences different things un his life. Your expectations are too high!
Anonymous
Post 07/30/2015 12:03     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My 11 yr old son, who has ADHD, and I were talking about the foster care system. It's not unusual that we get into discussions about serious issues. He overheard me and DH discussing thigns and wants to learn about it and join. He's always been a bit selfish and has what I think is an underdeveloped conscience. Like for example, the other day he broke something in the house yet blamed his little sister. It took a lot of prodding and then threats before he finally admitted he did it. We talked about how children in foster care often have a tough life, why, and how life is even harder sometimes after they age out. He abruptly asks me, "So does the government give a person money for taking in a foster child?" I answer "Yes, I do believe they do sometimes." "How much?" he asks. "I don't know" I answer. He then asks, "Why don't you take in a foster child so you can get more money?" I was appalled. He's a very bright kid who is developmentally very behind emotionally. Is there any hope? Anyone have a kid like this?


OP, I have an 11 year old DS and frankly, I'm more concerned about you -- that you would think a statement like this was worthy of rushing to DCUM, calling his conscience "underdeveloped" and asking if there is any hope.

Do you have any sense of reality of what to expect from an 11 year old?


Yeah, your kid is 11. I don't think he was trying to be a jerk. He's just young. He may have at some point heard you and DH discussing finances and just thought this could be one way to help out. His thinking - you like kids, the kids need a home and you need money.

I have a 12 year old girl who would NEVER say anything like this. But then I have a 10 year old boy who is way out there sometimes. I note this just to say, the OP probably has a pretty good sense or her son's emotional empathy levels. Although she hasn't shared enough examples to convince all of you, my guess is she's around enough kids (hers or others) to recognize that her son is not demonstrating empathy as much as many others do. All that said, I agree with the helpful posters above. Some kids just get this stuff naturally, and others need a lot more TEACHING. Just keep at it.

Anonymous
Post 07/30/2015 07:17     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?
Remember, ADHD equalls impulsive. Which can certainly mean saying or doing things without thinking through all of the angles.
Anonymous
Post 07/30/2015 06:52     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My 11 yr old son, who has ADHD, and I were talking about the foster care system. It's not unusual that we get into discussions about serious issues. He overheard me and DH discussing thigns and wants to learn about it and join. He's always been a bit selfish and has what I think is an underdeveloped conscience. Like for example, the other day he broke something in the house yet blamed his little sister. It took a lot of prodding and then threats before he finally admitted he did it. We talked about how children in foster care often have a tough life, why, and how life is even harder sometimes after they age out. He abruptly asks me, "So does the government give a person money for taking in a foster child?" I answer "Yes, I do believe they do sometimes." "How much?" he asks. "I don't know" I answer. He then asks, "Why don't you take in a foster child so you can get more money?" I was appalled. He's a very bright kid who is developmentally very behind emotionally. Is there any hope? Anyone have a kid like this?


OP, I have an 11 year old DS and frankly, I'm more concerned about you -- that you would think a statement like this was worthy of rushing to DCUM, calling his conscience "underdeveloped" and asking if there is any hope.

Do you have any sense of reality of what to expect from an 11 year old?


Yeah, your kid is 11. I don't think he was trying to be a jerk. He's just young. He may have at some point heard you and DH discussing finances and just thought this could be one way to help out. His thinking - you like kids, the kids need a home and you need money.

Anonymous
Post 07/30/2015 06:28     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?
Is this consistent with how he has always been, or is it something new (e.g., tween/teenishness obnoxiousness)? I have an 11yo who has always had an incredibly soft heart; his brother is very sweet, but less emotional. For example they both love nature but the older one still will not watch a nature show in which an animal is killed by another animal or dies etc. He will leave the room or turn the channel. The younger one doesn't get as upset. I don't think the 6yo is un-empathetic (I know he's not) but their personalities are different with respect to how they process upsetting information. Your son may just be processing the foster child issue less emotionally than you or I might.

Secondly, even in my sweet 11yo, we now see routine streaks of pure and unadulterated obnoxiousness than I'm blaming on puberty. He can be such a jerk at times! Most recently when he was behaving in a way that I found horrible (entitled, rude, stubborn), I literally just stuck the Post magazine I'd been reading in his hands. I had him read the profile of 5 kids who'd come solo to the US without documents. It was mostly upbeat but talked about their journeys and their struggles since arriving in the US. He read the whole thing, then put it down and started crying. The tween obnoxiousness thing went out the window for a few hours. I don't think it would have been as effective if I had lectured him (as I do) about how lucky he is to have what he has in life (a house, a family, a good school, etc); he needed to come to a conclusion on his own. If you're worried about your son's attitude toward others, try finding some ways for him to learn about those less fortunate on his own rather than being lectured by a parent.

Anonymous
Post 07/30/2015 05:14     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My 11 yr old son, who has ADHD, and I were talking about the foster care system. It's not unusual that we get into discussions about serious issues. He overheard me and DH discussing thigns and wants to learn about it and join. He's always been a bit selfish and has what I think is an underdeveloped conscience. Like for example, the other day he broke something in the house yet blamed his little sister. It took a lot of prodding and then threats before he finally admitted he did it. We talked about how children in foster care often have a tough life, why, and how life is even harder sometimes after they age out. He abruptly asks me, "So does the government give a person money for taking in a foster child?" I answer "Yes, I do believe they do sometimes." "How much?" he asks. "I don't know" I answer. He then asks, "Why don't you take in a foster child so you can get more money?" I was appalled. He's a very bright kid who is developmentally very behind emotionally. Is there any hope? Anyone have a kid like this?


OP, I have an 11 year old DS and frankly, I'm more concerned about you -- that you would think a statement like this was worthy of rushing to DCUM, calling his conscience "underdeveloped" and asking if there is any hope.

Do you have any sense of reality of what to expect from an 11 year old?


I'm not the OP, but why so mean?


Another poster. I was trying to suggest some of this with my comments. Perhaps this pp is a little blunt, but what comes across with OP's anecdotes is a kind of dislike of her child and a lack of benefit of the doubt. It's a little bit off-putting. I don't find this poster any meaner than OP is, truthfully. I am taken aback that a mother would present her child as "without a conscience" over such trivialities, and yes, this to me reflects a sense of unreality about child development. Children are not always empathetic. That doesn't mean they lack a conscience.
Anonymous
Post 07/29/2015 19:46     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My 11 yr old son, who has ADHD, and I were talking about the foster care system. It's not unusual that we get into discussions about serious issues. He overheard me and DH discussing thigns and wants to learn about it and join. He's always been a bit selfish and has what I think is an underdeveloped conscience. Like for example, the other day he broke something in the house yet blamed his little sister. It took a lot of prodding and then threats before he finally admitted he did it. We talked about how children in foster care often have a tough life, why, and how life is even harder sometimes after they age out. He abruptly asks me, "So does the government give a person money for taking in a foster child?" I answer "Yes, I do believe they do sometimes." "How much?" he asks. "I don't know" I answer. He then asks, "Why don't you take in a foster child so you can get more money?" I was appalled. He's a very bright kid who is developmentally very behind emotionally. Is there any hope? Anyone have a kid like this?


OP, I have an 11 year old DS and frankly, I'm more concerned about you -- that you would think a statement like this was worthy of rushing to DCUM, calling his conscience "underdeveloped" and asking if there is any hope.

Do you have any sense of reality of what to expect from an 11 year old?


I'm not the OP, but why so mean?
Anonymous
Post 07/29/2015 19:15     Subject: Underdeveloped conscience, apathy, what is it?


OP,

This sounds exactly like my 10 year old son, who has ADHD and Asperger's.

That type of child, inquisitive and curious about adult subjects, is a joy to interact with intellectually. DS reads the New Yorker, listens to NPR, and has opinions and ideas on a host of current and historical issues.

However these kids can be very detached and clinical - which is great for future careers in STEM! My husband with ADHD and Asperger's has multiple graduate degrees and does cancer research, after spending some years in emergency medecine. These occupations fit him - it is easy for him to get past an extremely emotionally charged atmosphere, and hyperfocus on saving lives.

What you need to do is train his empathy. DH lacks empathy. His brain works on finding solutions to problems, not sympathizing with patients or family members! So every time your son expresses his underdeveloped empathy, stop the flow and hone in on that. Ask how he FEELS about the situation. Most the time, DS feels nothing. He has answered enough of my questions to know he *should* be feeling something, so he can usually answer correctly, but I can tell the true feeling is not there... yet.

Your son is not unloving or cruel, OP. He won't end up shooting elementary schoolers, if that's what you're afraid of. But empathy needs to be developed diligently and systematically, by you.

PS: ADHD is brought on by a lack of dopamine, the neurotransmitter of the frontal lobe, which delays development of that part of the brain, responsible for mature judgement and impulse inhibition. Asperger's, a form of high-functioning autism, is a disorder of social communication, which interferes with understanding and expressing appropriate verbal and non-verbal cues. Both can lead to an apparent lack of empathy.