Anonymous wrote:This is good advice. Your child sounds like he would do well in a mainstream classroom except for the emotional regulation part. Public schools are terrible at handling this and tend to do crazy things like suspend kids for this type of behavior, saying they are disrupting the class. I would make sure he has an IEP NOW in Montgomery County just in case he needs to be in a more restrictive classroom just for K or start looking at places like Maddux where they will give him some room to learn how not to get upset without punishing him.

Anonymous wrote:
The one issue that stands out is the meltdowns and tantruming. Most mainstream schools/classrooms will not be able to support this type of behavioral issues if they are still occurring past preschool. I would focus on this issue and try to get help before your child goes to k.

The problem with emotional regulation is what many posters are pointing out. Many private SN schools and camps don't deal well with behavioral issues nevermind public schools. Auburn and Maddux probably will not take a child with this profile.

New poster here -- one who confesses not to having read every comment on this thread.

I did want to share, though, that I have a four-year-old who sounds a bit like OP's. I had her evalutated this year and, while she was found to have a number of autistic traits, she does not not meet the threshold for an ASD diagnosis at this time.

That said I did not think she'd do well in a regular summer camp. She's thus been attending a SN camp this summer -- one focused on OT and social skills -- and it's been a fantastic summer. Zero regrets.

My advice: Don't worry about the labels; just know your kid and get him/her whatever services are necessary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've done two social groups and to be very honest, OP, your child sounds like he has a lot MORE needs than the kids in our groups.

In our first group there were four other kids and I think only one had an autism diagnosis. The other three kids didn't seem to have any obvious special needs in the way you are probably thinking of them. They were outgoing/friendly with parents and with eachother. Once, just once, I saw one of them once get upset about having to go to class but he basically just fell to the ground and cried softly for two minutes and went in and participated fine. All five kids in the class, including ours, are fully mainstreamed.

The second group DS was in was very similar. Could not tell any of the kids had any needs at all.

Whoever is putting the group together should be able to put your DS with kids who have similar needs. They usually work very hard to have a group of kids who will get along and need to work on similar things. If your child wouldn't be a good fit you may want to ask about a dyad--basically pairing your son up with one other child to work on these skills.

Look for social thinking groups rather than social skills groups. Many social skills groups will work on very basic things like giving kids scripts to greet people, take turns, etc. while social thinking ones are usually geared towards more complex issues.

Thank you for the distinction between social skills vs. social thinking -- that is very helpful. Although it wasn't an official 'therapeutic' tool, my son's old preschool used the dyad concept with him -- there was a boy who was remarkably out-going but also very easy going and they would put him and my son at tables together, in activities together, etc. fairly often.

I want my kid to be the most 'needy' one in the group. In the past group they happily told me he was often their peer model, which is how I first knew that the group wasn't what I had wanted. They focused a lot on taking turns, basic manners (saying hello and goodbye, eye contact, etc.), sharing, listening to each other etc. etc. which are all skills that in a group setting my son is more than capable of. But when it comes to negotiating free play, joining in appropriately, handling play the way someone else wants it, etc. etc. he definitely needs practice.

Ultimately it sounds like my fault for not really understanding the specifics of the group. This wasn't a situation where there was a great deal of pre-screening. If your kid was receiving OT, was in the age group, and you paid, you could register.

I don't think you are going to find that if your son is near the end of the spectrum needing social skills. If you are lucky, you may find one where he is in the middle somewhere. People on this thread have given you some excellent leads to find another social skills group. Maybe find one that runs several for his age group so they can put him in the one that is most appropriate. In the mean time, play games with him. At his age, Chutes and Ladders and Candyland are good games to teach tolerance for set backs. Sorry is another one. Or even card games like go fish. Don't let him win all the time.

A lot of his issues are similar to kid with HFA.'I would call ivy mount and see if they have any social skills programs that would be a good fit for him. They are expensive though just FYI.

This is good advice. Your child sounds like he would do well in a mainstream classroom except for the emotional regulation part. Public schools are terrible at handling this and tend to do crazy things like suspend kids for this type of behavior, saying they are disrupting the class. I would make sure he has an IEP NOW in Montgomery County just in case he needs to be in a more restrictive classroom just for K or start looking at places like Maddux where they will give him some room to learn how not to get upset without punishing him.

Anonymous wrote:
The one issue that stands out is the meltdowns and tantruming. Most mainstream schools/classrooms will not be able to support this type of behavioral issues if they are still occurring past preschool. I would focus on this issue and try to get help before your child goes to k.

OP,

Sorry about some of the PPs. They do mean well, I think, even if their tone is a bit harsh. Most SN parents I have met in real life in this area have been really kind. I hope you will be able to meet these kinds of people as well as you spend more time here!

TLC or Treatment and Learning Centers may be worth a call as well. We had been on a waitlist and in the early summer they called saying they were trying to put together some groups for kids that are like our son (who is in a mainstream classroom but has issues with flexibility and transitions). You should be explicit about your concerns so they know what you're looking for.

You could also try to put together your own playgroup if you have time to organize. I'm sure other SN parents on this board with similar issues -- stressful playdates -- may want to join. This way you'd have a group that wouldn't judge and you wouldn't have to worry if your son had a meltdown because they would totally understand what you're going through.

I've been on this Forum for maybe 5 years. Can't count the number of moms who come on here and said that the kids in XYZ [PEP; social skills group; learning center; school; classroom; therapist's office; whatever] are too special needs, too impaired, much more special needs than my child and my child simply is too high functioning for that environment. Heck, I do it myself, and my child is definitely very special needs.

OP, until you've tried the class, you really can't write off the other kids. A stim, or a hand flap, or a physical/motoric disability or an intellectual disability or a genetic disorder does not equate to poor social skills. In fact, google Williams Syndrome some time. Those kids have fabulous social skills. It's known as Cocktail Party Syndrome.

And guess what? Three or four other moms have written YOUR KID off as way too low functioning for their kid socialize/learn/interact/hang out with. So just stop with this crap.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I looked into social skills camps but we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did. I wondered if anyone was familiar with groups that mixed and matched NT kids and SN kids? Maybe what I'm seeking is a camp/group that isn't special needs per se, but has leaders capable of handling some kids who need more support?

Any tips or info on opportunities that may be open for August would be greatly appreciated!

OP, you need to find a social skill group/camp that has a better mix. I'm skeptical that the other kids were so much more "SN" than your kid.

Agree. The issues you describe will not be supported at a non SN camp. Rather than starting off with a social skills group, you should enroll DS in Speech classes for pragmatic speech so that he learns the give and take needed when playing. Start off with a therapist. He needs to learn to be less rigid.

Does your DS have a diagnosis and IEP for school?

He does private speech therapy. I'm assuming that I can ask his SLP about where to find speech classes for pragmatic speech--or do you have any specific recommendations? His diagnosis from the developmental pediatrician is Expressive Language Disorder and Developmental Coordination Disorder.

We went through Early Intervention before we moved to Maryland and he did have an IEP, but they only qualified him for one hour/week visit with a special ed teacher who came to our house and worked with him. I was underwhelmed with the services we received through the county, which is why we went for private speech and OT. He did not qualify for the special needs preschool program there, unfortunately, because I heard great things about it.

When my kid was this age, the most helpful thing was a social skills class at school with other kids who needed help in this area. They had the social classes 4x a week during nap time. DS has Asperger's and is and always was fully mainstreamed at a language immersion school. The social skills classes are taught in English even though prek4 at our school is 100% in the target language, no English. DS has an IEP although you did not need an IEP to be in the social skills class.

We never did outside/private social skills classes bc our school has always provided pragmatic speech therapy and social skills support at school for DS with his NT peers and classmates. We also found play dates helpful but the school supports invaluable: you can't beat social skills classes practiced with the kids you need to play with. DS is now a rising third grader with a large circle of friends including a BFF and pretty popular.

The one issue that stands out is the meltdowns and tantruming. Most mainstream schools/classrooms will not be able to support this type of behavioral issues if they are still occurring past preschool. I would focus on this issue and try to get help before your child goes to k.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I looked into social skills camps but we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did. I wondered if anyone was familiar with groups that mixed and matched NT kids and SN kids? Maybe what I'm seeking is a camp/group that isn't special needs per se, but has leaders capable of handling some kids who need more support?

Any tips or info on opportunities that may be open for August would be greatly appreciated!

OP, you need to find a social skill group/camp that has a better mix. I'm skeptical that the other kids were so much more "SN" than your kid.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for -- that is what I'm asking about. Not sure why you are skeptical, but the one we did earlier this summer wasn't a good fit for what we were looking for in terms of social skills.

OP, if your kid can't play one on one with you without ending up in tears, then he is not ready for a group with NT kids. So yes, I am very skeptical that the other kids in his past social skills group were more "SN" than he is.

You're right. I'm lying about my child, his needs and his abilities.

Seriously, wtf? I don't even know how to respond. You do realize that I never said the other kids were more SN? Another poster wrote that. I said that the social impairments were more severe. As bad as social interactions can be, my son does have some skills -- he can greet people appropriately and tell people his name and understands taking turns and listening when it's someone else's turn to talk, etc. As I posted before, the kids in this small group were working on skills that my son has a decent grasp on. They used him as a peer model for some skills. And the skills that my son is pretty damn lousy at were not really addressed. So, I concluded that I didn't do a good job picking An appropriate group and came here wondering if other groups existed that might have more of what we were looking for. He did show a good deal of growth throughout the last school year and I attribute a lot of that to the peer models he had in his preschool, which is not a special needs preschool, which is what got me wondering about groups that might have a mix. I'm baffled about how this stirred up skeptism in some of you.

Good grief it's isolating to be in a new state with a child with special needs, without the precious few social lifelines we had managed to develop through school the last two years. I'm just trying to help my kid.

Thank you to everyone who did post suggestions and direction and guidance. It's much appreciated.

I didn't say you were lying and yes you did. You wrote, "we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did."

So what if the social skills group used him as a model for greetings and taking turns. He's still going to get something out of it. The places people recommended are with SN kids. Your kid may be at the top of the SN heap, the bottom or somewhere in the middle. But from what you described, no, he's not ready for an NT group, which is in your subject line. So you can be defensive as you want, but the NT kids will see him as a PITA.

Wow. What a nice, helpful thing to say. I'm sorry for whoever has been ugly to you and your child.

Let me say, again, that he showed the most growth over the last year through being more involved in his preschool peer group. It is not a SN school. So I think it is quite appropriate to seek a group where he will be the most 'in need'as it may have, in the past, been a factor in some growth.

Perhaps it is a function of different tactics in different areas. Where we previously lived the concept of having NT peer models was pretty standard in a lot of SN work. The SN preschool had quite a few NT children enrolled specifically. Maybe that is not a common practice here?

I don't really care what their diagnosis is or is not, don't care about age or gender or race or religion or SES, I want a group that can help my son with the areas that are challenging to him. This last one wasn't great, so we will keep looking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've done two social groups and to be very honest, OP, your child sounds like he has a lot MORE needs than the kids in our groups.

In our first group there were four other kids and I think only one had an autism diagnosis. The other three kids didn't seem to have any obvious special needs in the way you are probably thinking of them. They were outgoing/friendly with parents and with eachother. Once, just once, I saw one of them once get upset about having to go to class but he basically just fell to the ground and cried softly for two minutes and went in and participated fine. All five kids in the class, including ours, are fully mainstreamed.

The second group DS was in was very similar. Could not tell any of the kids had any needs at all.

Whoever is putting the group together should be able to put your DS with kids who have similar needs. They usually work very hard to have a group of kids who will get along and need to work on similar things. If your child wouldn't be a good fit you may want to ask about a dyad--basically pairing your son up with one other child to work on these skills.

Look for social thinking groups rather than social skills groups. Many social skills groups will work on very basic things like giving kids scripts to greet people, take turns, etc. while social thinking ones are usually geared towards more complex issues.

Thank you for the distinction between social skills vs. social thinking -- that is very helpful. Although it wasn't an official 'therapeutic' tool, my son's old preschool used the dyad concept with him -- there was a boy who was remarkably out-going but also very easy going and they would put him and my son at tables together, in activities together, etc. fairly often.

I want my kid to be the most 'needy' one in the group. In the past group they happily told me he was often their peer model, which is how I first knew that the group wasn't what I had wanted. They focused a lot on taking turns, basic manners (saying hello and goodbye, eye contact, etc.), sharing, listening to each other etc. etc. which are all skills that in a group setting my son is more than capable of. But when it comes to negotiating free play, joining in appropriately, handling play the way someone else wants it, etc. etc. he definitely needs practice.

Ultimately it sounds like my fault for not really understanding the specifics of the group. This wasn't a situation where there was a great deal of pre-screening. If your kid was receiving OT, was in the age group, and you paid, you could register.

And the only way to get the practice is to continue the playdates and you as the parent must be present for them to guide the behavior when necessary. The artificial environment of the social skills group isn't going to provide enough practice and may not even foster the type of situations he needs.

Here is what I wish I would have done for my DD at that age instead of a social skills group -that by the way did not help: find 2 or 3 other kids my child got along with and regularly and routinely have them over to our house where my DD was most comfortable for short play dates of 1 hour, stayed close by for each playdate and when necessary guided the interaction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I looked into social skills camps but we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did. I wondered if anyone was familiar with groups that mixed and matched NT kids and SN kids? Maybe what I'm seeking is a camp/group that isn't special needs per se, but has leaders capable of handling some kids who need more support?

Any tips or info on opportunities that may be open for August would be greatly appreciated!

OP, you need to find a social skill group/camp that has a better mix. I'm skeptical that the other kids were so much more "SN" than your kid.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for -- that is what I'm asking about. Not sure why you are skeptical, but the one we did earlier this summer wasn't a good fit for what we were looking for in terms of social skills.

OP, if your kid can't play one on one with you without ending up in tears, then he is not ready for a group with NT kids. So yes, I am very skeptical that the other kids in his past social skills group were more "SN" than he is.

You're right. I'm lying about my child, his needs and his abilities.

Seriously, wtf? I don't even know how to respond. You do realize that I never said the other kids were more SN? Another poster wrote that. I said that the social impairments were more severe. As bad as social interactions can be, my son does have some skills -- he can greet people appropriately and tell people his name and understands taking turns and listening when it's someone else's turn to talk, etc. As I posted before, the kids in this small group were working on skills that my son has a decent grasp on. They used him as a peer model for some skills. And the skills that my son is pretty damn lousy at were not really addressed. So, I concluded that I didn't do a good job picking An appropriate group and came here wondering if other groups existed that might have more of what we were looking for. He did show a good deal of growth throughout the last school year and I attribute a lot of that to the peer models he had in his preschool, which is not a special needs preschool, which is what got me wondering about groups that might have a mix. I'm baffled about how this stirred up skeptism in some of you.

Good grief it's isolating to be in a new state with a child with special needs, without the precious few social lifelines we had managed to develop through school the last two years. I'm just trying to help my kid.

Thank you to everyone who did post suggestions and direction and guidance. It's much appreciated.

I didn't say you were lying and yes you did. You wrote, "we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did."

So what if the social skills group used him as a model for greetings and taking turns. He's still going to get something out of it. The places people recommended are with SN kids. Your kid may be at the top of the SN heap, the bottom or somewhere in the middle. But from what you described, no, he's not ready for an NT group, which is in your subject line. So you can be defensive as you want, but the NT kids will see him as a PITA.

There are a whole bunch in moco. I would start with a social skills camp. Fitness for Health still has room. A bunch of the social skills groups around here are geared for older kids. Try the Floortime Center and Sue Abrams. They may have groups for 4 year olds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I looked into social skills camps but we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did. I wondered if anyone was familiar with groups that mixed and matched NT kids and SN kids? Maybe what I'm seeking is a camp/group that isn't special needs per se, but has leaders capable of handling some kids who need more support?

Any tips or info on opportunities that may be open for August would be greatly appreciated!

OP, you need to find a social skill group/camp that has a better mix. I'm skeptical that the other kids were so much more "SN" than your kid.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for -- that is what I'm asking about. Not sure why you are skeptical, but the one we did earlier this summer wasn't a good fit for what we were looking for in terms of social skills.

OP, if your kid can't play one on one with you without ending up in tears, then he is not ready for a group with NT kids. So yes, I am very skeptical that the other kids in his past social skills group were more "SN" than he is.

You're right. I'm lying about my child, his needs and his abilities.

Seriously, wtf? I don't even know how to respond. You do realize that I never said the other kids were more SN? Another poster wrote that. I said that the social impairments were more severe. As bad as social interactions can be, my son does have some skills -- he can greet people appropriately and tell people his name and understands taking turns and listening when it's someone else's turn to talk, etc. As I posted before, the kids in this small group were working on skills that my son has a decent grasp on. They used him as a peer model for some skills. And the skills that my son is pretty damn lousy at were not really addressed. So, I concluded that I didn't do a good job picking An appropriate group and came here wondering if other groups existed that might have more of what we were looking for. He did show a good deal of growth throughout the last school year and I attribute a lot of that to the peer models he had in his preschool, which is not a special needs preschool, which is what got me wondering about groups that might have a mix. I'm baffled about how this stirred up skeptism in some of you.

Good grief it's isolating to be in a new state with a child with special needs, without the precious few social lifelines we had managed to develop through school the last two years. I'm just trying to help my kid.

Thank you to everyone who did post suggestions and direction and guidance. It's much appreciated.

Also try JSSA.

I would look at MOCO Movement Center in North Bethesda. The facility is very good. They have a lot of small group classes, as well as individual therapy. Perhaps they have a class your son could join. The staff is young and enthusiastic and great with kids.