Anonymous wrote:I sort of agree.

I actually think that there are plenty of educated Americans, but there aren't enough Americans trained in trades (hard skills). And that is where we are going to see a deficit. I also think there aren't enough engineers, but the surprising thing is that engineering jobs don't seem to pay a salary that reflects that.

I think there is a disconnect. The salaries don't match the value of the skill. There are bloated salaries for amorphous, undefined management-esque jobs. But the salaries for actual hard skills are very low.

For example, I know a skilled electrician who works in DC at a place that has some prestige. He makes under 40k. He has to live out in the exurbs. And yet he tells me that they complained the last time they tried to hire a new electrician because they had trouble finding someone who was skilled and experienced and reliable. But they were unwilling to set the salary higher, even though they employ lots of white-collar employees who do a lot of paper pushing for significantly higher salaries. But they are stuck in the mindset that electrician is blue collar/labor.

My view is there is a disconnect. It isn't even just salary, but level of respect. So lots of people flock to certain fields (think law or even policy), and then there are hundreds of applicants for each position.

I actually think that focusing too much on traditional 4-year college education is the wrong approach as a country. We should actually be doing more to bring back apprenticeships and training in trades. And beyond that, we should change how we view those fields so that it isn't seen as "well, Johnny isn't smart enough for college, so he's going to go to trade school." That's the wrong outlook.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teaching is no longer a respectable profession - frankly, I think people put it on par with waiting tables, as something to do until you get your "real" job. My grandfather was a teacher and was both very strict and used a lot of creativity in the way he taught (he taught drama and French) - I don't think his style or expectations would be allowable in today's schools. Furthermore, he wouldn't be able to support a family of six children now, as he was able to do then, on a teacher's salary.

When we start valuing teachers, and trusting them, maybe the system will improve.

I wouldn't go so far as to compare it to waiting tables, teachers do have college degrees, but it is not an impressive job. Having volunteered in my child's school, I do wonder what would posses a person to teach, it's such a crappy, demanding job. I think some just really love children and want to make a difference and others chose teaching because they aren't bright enough or motivated enough to complete a more challenging degree.

Until these attitudes go away, how can we expect education to improve?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teaching is no longer a respectable profession - frankly, I think people put it on par with waiting tables, as something to do until you get your "real" job. My grandfather was a teacher and was both very strict and used a lot of creativity in the way he taught (he taught drama and French) - I don't think his style or expectations would be allowable in today's schools. Furthermore, he wouldn't be able to support a family of six children now, as he was able to do then, on a teacher's salary.

When we start valuing teachers, and trusting them, maybe the system will improve.

I wouldn't go so far as to compare it to waiting tables, teachers do have college degrees, but it is not an impressive job. Having volunteered in my child's school, I do wonder what would posses a person to teach, it's such a crappy, demanding job. I think some just really love children and want to make a difference and others chose teaching because they aren't bright enough or motivated enough to complete a more challenging degree.

Anonymous wrote:Teaching is no longer a respectable profession - frankly, I think people put it on par with waiting tables, as something to do until you get your "real" job. My grandfather was a teacher and was both very strict and used a lot of creativity in the way he taught (he taught drama and French) - I don't think his style or expectations would be allowable in today's schools. Furthermore, he wouldn't be able to support a family of six children now, as he was able to do then, on a teacher's salary.

When we start valuing teachers, and trusting them, maybe the system will improve.

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. It's not overblown.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the vast majority of our children lack critical thinking and problem solving skills. This is what happens when principals, teachers, and students are all judged primarily on test scores.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you have 100+ qualified applicants for job after job on LinkedIn, surely the whole BS about there being an education crisis in this country is overblown. The supply/demand doesn't reflect that.

What does the amount of people applying for a handful of jobs have anything to do with the state of education in the US?

Anonymous wrote:I sort of agree.

I actually think that there are plenty of educated Americans, but there aren't enough Americans trained in trades (hard skills). And that is where we are going to see a deficit. I also think there aren't enough engineers, but the surprising thing is that engineering jobs don't seem to pay a salary that reflects that.

I think there is a disconnect. The salaries don't match the value of the skill. There are bloated salaries for amorphous, undefined management-esque jobs. But the salaries for actual hard skills are very low.

For example, I know a skilled electrician who works in DC at a place that has some prestige. He makes under 40k. He has to live out in the exurbs. And yet he tells me that they complained the last time they tried to hire a new electrician because they had trouble finding someone who was skilled and experienced and reliable. But they were unwilling to set the salary higher, even though they employ lots of white-collar employees who do a lot of paper pushing for significantly higher salaries. But they are stuck in the mindset that electrician is blue collar/labor.

My view is there is a disconnect. It isn't even just salary, but level of respect. So lots of people flock to certain fields (think law or even policy), and then there are hundreds of applicants for each position.

I actually think that focusing too much on traditional 4-year college education is the wrong approach as a country. We should actually be doing more to bring back apprenticeships and training in trades. And beyond that, we should change how we view those fields so that it isn't seen as "well, Johnny isn't smart enough for college, so he's going to go to trade school." That's the wrong outlook.

Anonymous wrote:When you have 100+ qualified applicants for job after job on LinkedIn, surely the whole BS about there being an education crisis in this country is overblown. The supply/demand doesn't reflect that.

Anonymous wrote:How long are you going to be hiding behind that "homogenous population" excuse?
I also truly believe that you can take your advantaged white kids and they will not test as well as their counterparts abroad. I went to high school abroad and college here so I'm speaking from my experience.
Besides all millions national tests, I wish they'd drop the multiple choice for awhile. My kids moves right to left, up and down on the page and still misses to fill in some circles. Doesn't even read all of them, just runs through them. Can't retell a story coherently (2nd grade,WoTP great school), hasn't had to memorize a poem. What do they do in school for 6 hours?! 6 hours is a long time to learn nothing...

Anonymous wrote:When you have 100+ qualified applicants for job after job on LinkedIn, surely the whole BS about there being an education crisis in this country is overblown. The supply/demand doesn't reflect that.

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the PP you quoted, and population heterogeneity is not in question according to the data education scientists have amassed and analyzed. Even when they only focus on the wealthy white students in the most affluent school districts, the US STILL lags behind. We're not even talking about Anacostia schools here - because they would be on par with South Sudan, practically.

The biggest hurdle to overcome is surely that the average American doesn't even realize US standards have fallen so far behind, AND doesn't recognize where the problem lies. Please note that Education quality can change very quickly, in a decade, for example. America used to be on top, back in the day when Finland used to be a poor nation of uneducated people, in the 50s. Now Finland is on top of of the world, with any type of test you can throw at its students, AND they don't force their students to study for longer hours than the typical American child is awake for, like in South Korea.

We need to pull our head out of the sand and observe what other nations are doing, and humbly learn from them.

I did not realize that Finland, Poland, and South Korea were economic superpowers.
Perhaps you should not be so quick to listen to educational "experts" who compare school systems without factoring in the considerable differences between nations that make them what they are.