Anonymous
Post 06/29/2015 08:57     Subject: Re:Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Anonymous wrote:I love the "reasoning" here. Most people who earn $200K+, even over $500K+, work hard and value education and are nice people who care about their communities who don't seem like they live on a different planet. Yet only the "idle rich" minority count as rich apparently, so everyone else has middle class "values."

Over 80% of millionaires have college degrees. I don't think "valuing education" is an exclusively or especially middle class trait.


That's the point. It's supposed to be inclusive, while seeming exclusive.

"Middle class values" is political rhetoric used on both sides of the aisle as shorthand for "I am like you; I value the same things; and if you vote for me, I will protect your interests [against those who do not have middle class values]". What is not said is the vast majority of this country does indeed possess middle class values. The voter is supposed to substitute actual policy positions that appeal to him (or her) for "middle class values". So for some, they assume it means cutting tax breaks for the "rich", and for others, it means cutting entitlement spending for the "lazy".
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2015 08:13     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Anonymous wrote:Middle class values means a strong work ethic and valuing education. It is meant to differentiate between people who work for a living and the idle rich (and in some political ideologies, it means those who work vs. those who get government assistance).

You can be poor and have middle class values, or you can be rich and have middle class values. It has nothing to do with your HHI.


great post.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2015 08:07     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because they do belong to middle class although you can argue they're upper middle. But upper middle is also middle class (i.e. they're not "rich").
I consider being rich as having the option of quitting your job and still having a well-off life. Most of those in the conversation obviously don't belong to this group.


So most millionaires are "middle class" then.


I'm a multi-millionaire who considers myself middle class, and it comes down to values and lifestyle. Do my own yardwork, public schools, domestic/driving vacations, military veteran.
Anonymous
Post 06/29/2015 00:42     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because they do belong to middle class although you can argue they're upper middle. But upper middle is also middle class (i.e. they're not "rich").
I consider being rich as having the option of quitting your job and still having a well-off life. Most of those in the conversation obviously don't belong to this group.


So most millionaires are "middle class" then.

As long as they cannot afford to quit their jobs, they are middle class.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2015 23:14     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Anonymous wrote:Because they do belong to middle class although you can argue they're upper middle. But upper middle is also middle class (i.e. they're not "rich").
I consider being rich as having the option of quitting your job and still having a well-off life. Most of those in the conversation obviously don't belong to this group.


So most millionaires are "middle class" then.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2015 22:57     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Anonymous wrote:High GS-11s don't make 6 figures.


Yes but two of them do which is what I was responding to.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2015 22:31     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Because they do belong to middle class although you can argue they're upper middle. But upper middle is also middle class (i.e. they're not "rich").
I consider being rich as having the option of quitting your job and still having a well-off life. Most of those in the conversation obviously don't belong to this group.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2015 21:51     Subject: Re:Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
I love the "reasoning" here. Most people who earn $200K+, even over $500K+, work hard and value education and are nice people who care about their communities who don't seem like they live on a different planet. Yet only the "idle rich" minority count as rich apparently, so everyone else has middle class "values."

Over 80% of millionaires have college degrees. I don't think "valuing education" is an exclusively or especially middle class trait.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2015 20:35     Subject: Re:Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
10 years ago I made $75k. Then I got married and together we made about $130k. Now, together, we make $300k. Why do you think our values would have changed?
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2015 18:04     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Anonymous wrote:If you're making $200 or 300K a year, you're in the top 5%. Yet so many people with these incomes insist they live a "middle class" lifestyle and have "middle class values." Why? Because you vote Democrat instead of Republican? Because you're not a member of a country club? Because you can't afford (like 99.99% of Americans) to fly by private jet?


Because somehow we have the Idea that rich equals unethical jerk.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2015 17:51     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Anonymous wrote:This again?

I think the reason people say they are middle class when they make $200k is that in DC that affords a decidedly unpretentious lifestyle: public school, a decent but likely unremarkable home, limited vacations, some college savings but certainly not paid off, etc. Inevitably someone posts that those things aren't middle class and someone's sense of normalcy is warped.

The real question should be why those things aren't middle class: after all is it so absurd to want decent education, good health benefits and a reasonably secure retirement? These aren't grandiose wants After all. In Europe the middle class has all that - why can't we have it here?

And that is what's fucked imho.


Yup. That's what the middle class should be able to afford, but around here it takes a higher than average income to have all that. As someone with an actual middle class income in Arlington, I can't afford a house (not even a South Arlington shit shack!) or significant savings.

Also agree that middle class values =/= middle class income. I am fine with someone making $200k saying they have middle class values; what makes me roll my eyes is the whining about how they can't afford what they consider a middle class lifestyle.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2015 17:25     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you're making $200 or 300K a year, you're in the top 5%. Yet so many people with these incomes insist they live a "middle class" lifestyle and have "middle class values." Why? Because you vote Democrat instead of Republican? Because you're not a member of a country club? Because you can't afford (like 99.99% of Americans) to fly by private jet?


Using this logic 2 GS-11s are upper middle class


Explain to me how you figure that?
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2015 11:10     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
This again?

I think the reason people say they are middle class when they make $200k is that in DC that affords a decidedly unpretentious lifestyle: public school, a decent but likely unremarkable home, limited vacations, some college savings but certainly not paid off, etc. Inevitably someone posts that those things aren't middle class and someone's sense of normalcy is warped.

The real question should be why those things aren't middle class: after all is it so absurd to want decent education, good health benefits and a reasonably secure retirement? These aren't grandiose wants After all. In Europe the middle class has all that - why can't we have it here?

And that is what's fucked imho.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2015 10:44     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Middle class values means a strong work ethic and valuing education. It is meant to differentiate between people who work for a living and the idle rich (and in some political ideologies, it means those who work vs. those who get government assistance).

You can be poor and have middle class values, or you can be rich and have middle class values. It has nothing to do with your HHI.


+1. I know lots of high earners who have middle class values.


Yep.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2015 10:38     Subject: Why do so many affluent people insist they have "middle class" values?
Anonymous wrote:Middle class values means a strong work ethic and valuing education. It is meant to differentiate between people who work for a living and the idle rich (and in some political ideologies, it means those who work vs. those who get government assistance).

You can be poor and have middle class values, or you can be rich and have middle class values. It has nothing to do with your HHI.


+1. I know lots of high earners who have middle class values.