Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 15:07     Subject: Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If Dylann Roof had killed people in a mall, for example, on a mass shooting spree, only those who believed in God would go to a place called heaven?

Only they would be "saved?"

The unbaptized toddler would go to hell for sinning, right?


Baptism has nothing to do with it. It is merely a symbol of the rebirth to following Christ.

And as to your other questions, only God knows. But yes, in this sense, the fact that those people in Charleston were killed in a church is irrelevant to the final destiny of their souls.


Baptism is not symbolic in the Catholic Church; it's a sacrament cleansing you of original sin. Those not baptized may enter heaven through martyrdom, however.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 14:00     Subject: Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:If Dylann Roof had killed people in a mall, for example, on a mass shooting spree, only those who believed in God would go to a place called heaven?

Only they would be "saved?"

The unbaptized toddler would go to hell for sinning, right?


Baptism has nothing to do with it. It is merely a symbol of the rebirth to following Christ.

And as to your other questions, only God knows. But yes, in this sense, the fact that those people in Charleston were killed in a church is irrelevant to the final destiny of their souls.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 13:25     Subject: Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
If Dylann Roof had killed people in a mall, for example, on a mass shooting spree, only those who believed in God would go to a place called heaven?

Only they would be "saved?"

The unbaptized toddler would go to hell for sinning, right?
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 13:11     Subject: Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
It works with my religion, but I'm not Christian. The idea of "God" for me is the ability each person has within himself to rise above and be the best person they can be. Not everyone can do that, but as can be seen by the response, many can.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 12:40     Subject: Re:Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm so glad you posted this question.

I am a Christian, live in DC and spend the summer in Charleston. So I am here now and what I have witnessed this week has made me not doubt my faith, but actually inspired and made it stronger. What I have seen here this week is nothing short of the work of the Holy Spirit here on earth.

Satan himself -- in the body of DR -- walked into that church on Wednesday night. He confronted the risen Christ, and once again tried to attack it as he has done for 2,000 years. But what was the result? Healing, love and forgiveness, even from those most personally affected by the tragedy. The city is in more pain than you can believe but there is also evidence here of the power of the risen Lord to conquer it all. DR is finished. His evil is exposed and has been put in his place. Others will try again -- Satan will not be fully conquered until Christ comes again -- but I can assure you, in this instance, he did not win.


Don't forget that fear and pain and murder were also results. Also children deprived of their fathers or mothers. I am happy to see people come together to help the living in this time of great pain, and hope the time comes when this compassion isn't automatically couched in the language of satan and god.


You are absolutely right. This is a pain and void these victim family members will endure for the rest of their lives. Fortunately, they do have the knowledge that they will be together with their loved ones again one day.

Why does this tone of language bother you? All of the victims are devout Christians. Especially if this language is comfort to their relatives, why shouldn't it continue?
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 11:56     Subject: Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What kind of God would allow THAT?

You sound like a jerk. Never say that to a person who is going thru something terrible


How is that a jerky response?

We can't question horrible acts? Why does God allow children to be raped? Why does God allow people to be swept away in storms? Why does God allow the death of babies? the beating of animals? acts of terrorism in the name of some god or "God?"

Smart people question; blind followers are just that - blind.


It’s called man’s free will. And, sin.



"Free will" exists every day, in every choice for every one of us. We are ALL -- you, me, Dylann Roof, the people in the church -- subject to original sin. This means that we are by nature fallen people. The free will that Christians have accepted is the choice to follow Him, to rise above ourselves and to accept His grace. They had done that and were living their lives accordingly. DR, obviously, had not. Certainly not every non-follower of Christ is inhabited by the evil that he is, but we are all subject to it. Evil is alive and well in this fallen world as we see in varying degrees every single day. Fortunately, rarely this dramatically.


Where was the free will among those people at Bible study in that Charleston Church? what was their sin?
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 11:37     Subject: Re:Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm so glad you posted this question.

I am a Christian, live in DC and spend the summer in Charleston. So I am here now and what I have witnessed this week has made me not doubt my faith, but actually inspired and made it stronger. What I have seen here this week is nothing short of the work of the Holy Spirit here on earth.

Satan himself -- in the body of DR -- walked into that church on Wednesday night. He confronted the risen Christ, and once again tried to attack it as he has done for 2,000 years. But what was the result? Healing, love and forgiveness, even from those most personally affected by the tragedy. The city is in more pain than you can believe but there is also evidence here of the power of the risen Lord to conquer it all. DR is finished. His evil is exposed and has been put in his place. Others will try again -- Satan will not be fully conquered until Christ comes again -- but I can assure you, in this instance, he did not win.


Don't forget that fear and pain and murder were also results. Also children deprived of their fathers or mothers. I am happy to see people come together to help the living in this time of great pain, and hope the time comes when this compassion isn't automatically couched in the language of satan and god.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 11:34     Subject: Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What kind of God would allow THAT?

You sound like a jerk. Never say that to a person who is going thru something terrible


How is that a jerky response?

We can't question horrible acts? Why does God allow children to be raped? Why does God allow people to be swept away in storms? Why does God allow the death of babies? the beating of animals? acts of terrorism in the name of some god or "God?"

Smart people question; blind followers are just that - blind.


It’s called man’s free will. And, sin.


Where was the free will among those people at Bible study in that Charleston Church? what was their sin?[/quote

"Free will" exists every day, in every choice for every one of us. We are ALL -- you, me, Dylann Roof, the people in the church -- subject to original sin. This means that we are by nature fallen people. The free will that Christians have accepted is the choice to follow Him, to rise above ourselves and to accept His grace. They had done that and were living their lives accordingly. DR, obviously, had not. Certainly not every non-follower of Christ is inhabited by the evil that he is, but we are all subject to it. Evil is alive and well in this fallen world as we see in varying degrees every single day. Fortunately, rarely this dramatically.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 11:30     Subject: Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:No it makes it stronger, amidst hate and evil there are people willing to forgive. There are people praying for those families devastated and people crying and grieving with those families. People who don't know them are on their knees praying and working to help them. Churches are meeting to figure out how they can reach out to this church, how to fight racism and change our world. Good SHALL overcome evil. Yes, there is evil, but all things work for the Good, we don't see the miracles and Good things on the news.


You're right -- the news does not report miracles -- it only reports things that have actually happened.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 11:29     Subject: Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No it makes it stronger, amidst hate and evil there are people willing to forgive. There are people praying for those families devastated and people crying and grieving with those families. People who don't know them are on their knees praying and working to help them. Churches are meeting to figure out how they can reach out to this church, how to fight racism and change our world. Good SHALL overcome evil. Yes, there is evil, but all things work for the Good, we don't see the miracles and Good things on the news.


What if they receive an offer of hep from a humanist or atheist group -- should they accept it even though atheists don't pray?


Sure, of course. But I'm not speaking for them. I'm speaking for myself and my church/church members who are praying and the churches in Charleston (where my husband's family is from) who are rallying around these hurting people. Have you seen the videos and photos of people praying for and reaching out to the family members/church family? They are inspiring. I personally haven't seen any atheist groups doing anything, but it would be awesome if they did. I believe in "a peace that passes understanding," that cannot be explained, and I believe it comes from God.


Don't be surprised if you don't hear about humanists groups that get involved -- it happened during the Oklahoma tornado.


Why do we (you?) have to label people in this way? Oh, look... the atheists are over there helping out, and here come the Hindus. The Episcopalians are scheduled for tomorrow at noon.

Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 11:29     Subject: Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What kind of God would allow THAT?

You sound like a jerk. Never say that to a person who is going thru something terrible


How is that a jerky response?

We can't question horrible acts? Why does God allow children to be raped? Why does God allow people to be swept away in storms? Why does God allow the death of babies? the beating of animals? acts of terrorism in the name of some god or "God?"

Smart people question; blind followers are just that - blind.


It’s called man’s free will. And, sin.


Where was the free will among those people at Bible study in that Charleston Church? what was their sin?
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 11:26     Subject: Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:They are in heaven now and you couldn't give them anything to come back.


How do you know that?
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 11:22     Subject: Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No it makes it stronger, amidst hate and evil there are people willing to forgive. There are people praying for those families devastated and people crying and grieving with those families. People who don't know them are on their knees praying and working to help them. Churches are meeting to figure out how they can reach out to this church, how to fight racism and change our world. Good SHALL overcome evil. Yes, there is evil, but all things work for the Good, we don't see the miracles and Good things on the news.


What if they receive an offer of hep from a humanist or atheist group -- should they accept it even though atheists don't pray?


Sure, of course. But I'm not speaking for them. I'm speaking for myself and my church/church members who are praying and the churches in Charleston (where my husband's family is from) who are rallying around these hurting people. Have you seen the videos and photos of people praying for and reaching out to the family members/church family? They are inspiring. I personally haven't seen any atheist groups doing anything, but it would be awesome if they did. I believe in "a peace that passes understanding," that cannot be explained, and I believe it comes from God.


Don't be surprised if you don't hear about humanists groups that get involved -- it happened during the Oklahoma tornado.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 10:58     Subject: Re:Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
Anonymous wrote:From my personal perspective, an atheist, I lost someone very close to me in a sudden way. Other people were spared, but she truly embodied a selfless, loving person. Anyway you could say what God would do this? But when people around you and yourself want to find comfort in the idea that she is in a better place or why someone was taken from you in a violent way, you don't ask that question. There is no point in continuing other people's pain by questioning what helps us all cope with the finality of death.


PP, what you have to understand is that God did not "do this" to your sweet friend/ relative. Accidents, deaths, tragedy happen to all of us at some point. I don't know the circumstances, but I am sorry that this happened to you and to someone in your life. Why were others spared? We do not know. It could be something as simple as luck. I do understand that when we here on earth are faced with death of loved ones, we view it as that person is taken from us. And they often are, as those people in the church were on Wednesday night. But I also know this -- they are now somewhere else that is their final home. And we can look forward to the day -- which, in the big scheme of things is truly "the blink of an eye" -- when we will be with them again.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2015 10:53     Subject: Re:Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?
From my personal perspective, an atheist, I lost someone very close to me in a sudden way. Other people were spared, but she truly embodied a selfless, loving person. Anyway you could say what God would do this? But when people around you and yourself want to find comfort in the idea that she is in a better place or why someone was taken from you in a violent way, you don't ask that question. There is no point in continuing other people's pain by questioning what helps us all cope with the finality of death.