Anonymous wrote:Yes, my sister and BIL are pretty bad with financial management. They have lots of credit card debt they have been carrying for years as well as using personal loans. It's one of the reasons my sister thought nothing of taking out a a loan to pay for the wedding. When her DH found out about her offering to take out a loan he stepped in and said no way could they do that at this point. They already are taking out loans for college. My niece wanted to ask her grandparents for money (my BIL's parents) but she can't because they are already giving money for both girls to attend college.

I did tell my sister last night that she needs to tell my niece that she can't contribute or pay as much as she thought and she needs to tell her right now. My sister was crying to me on the phone because my niece and her got in a big fight once my sister told my niece said she can't afford to pay the deposit for the caterer right now.

My sister has paid the one deposit to secure the location which is a B&B. According to my niece, the agreement is to rent out the entire B&B for a weekend and that the agreement is non-refundable and non-changeable so they have to go through with the agreement. They also say you have to use certain caterers and equipment rentals places as well. I am not sure if this is all true or if perhaps my niece is misunderstanding the agreements or if she just don't want to change the plans at this point.



And yes, they are both really young and if it was my child, I would have encouraged them to wait a while to get engaged and married.

When is the wedding? If it is soon, then they may be obligated to pay the B&B everything, but they might just lose the deposit. Someone needs to look at what they signed. They need to stop the whole process right now, or someone is going to end up holding the bill.

Anonymous wrote:People should not have parties they can not afford. Period. You niece is too young and immature to get married.

Sounds like the mom is immature. Niece is 22. What's the mother's excuse for over promising repeatedly over months of time??

OP, your sister needs to get the niece on board. If that means opening up their finances more to her, so be it. Then they need to reach a compromise amount. As a PP said, the mother should cover all non-refundable costs as well.

another yikes!

OP, I know you are asking about what's fair, and what's right, but also know that the first order of business for YOU is to stay out of it.

With respect to your niece, she may be acting out because she's spoiled etc, and of course because they relied on her mother's comments--fine. But she also may be acting out because this is part of her mother's pattern of behavior of changing the game or failing to keep promises, and your niece is sick of it, and a planned wedding is very high emotional ground to take a stand.

Now this is a wedding, which can be accomplished on the cheap--it's not like it's a promise to take care of someone's medical care. It's about the size of a party attached to the real event, all the more reason to stay out of it.

Let's put it another way, and that is, if you get involved, there's little chance you'll make a difference, and a big chance one or both will at one point resent you and wished you would "butt out."

Pick your battles wisely, OP.

Anonymous wrote:1. both mother and daughter are irresponsible, in this case the apple did not fall far from the tree.

2. no reason to pay for the wedding, most likely it won't last, niece is there for the party, clearly does not understand that the wedding itself it's just a day and has really no bearing on the rest of her life. getting married is much more than having a fancy party. the mother should pay for any deposit the couple made, since she did offer to pay. she should explain to the couple that she cannot pay for the wedding. niece can have a small gathering at home with close family and friends, she can do that with few hundred dollars.

3. OP should stay out of it, all people involved seem immature and irresponsible, and you cannot beat sense into people who do not have it. life eventually will.

I forgot to say that the best gift OP's sister can give her daughter is to teach her to grow up and to be financially responsible, or the daughter will end up broke (and divorced) at 30 and will carry debts for the rest of her life. she should resist the daughter's demands, explain the reasons and stick to her guns no matter what. what the daughter is saying about the agreement sounds like a pile of BS, OP's sister should not have paid the deposit. this will end up in a financial and emotional mess. what a lovely way to start married life.

1. both mother and daughter are irresponsible, in this case the apple did not fall far from the tree.

2. no reason to pay for the wedding, most likely it won't last, niece is there for the party, clearly does not understand that the wedding itself it's just a day and has really no bearing on the rest of her life. getting married is much more than having a fancy party. the mother should pay for any deposit the couple made, since she did offer to pay. she should explain to the couple that she cannot pay for the wedding. niece can have a small gathering at home with close family and friends, she can do that with few hundred dollars.

3. OP should stay out of it, all people involved seem immature and irresponsible, and you cannot beat sense into people who do not have it. life eventually will.

Yes, my sister and BIL are pretty bad with financial management. They have lots of credit card debt they have been carrying for years as well as using personal loans. It's one of the reasons my sister thought nothing of taking out a a loan to pay for the wedding. When her DH found out about her offering to take out a loan he stepped in and said no way could they do that at this point. They already are taking out loans for college. My niece wanted to ask her grandparents for money (my BIL's parents) but she can't because they are already giving money for both girls to attend college.

I did tell my sister last night that she needs to tell my niece that she can't contribute or pay as much as she thought and she needs to tell her right now. My sister was crying to me on the phone because my niece and her got in a big fight once my sister told my niece said she can't afford to pay the deposit for the caterer right now.

My sister has paid the one deposit to secure the location which is a B&B. According to my niece, the agreement is to rent out the entire B&B for a weekend and that the agreement is non-refundable and non-changeable so they have to go through with the agreement. They also say you have to use certain caterers and equipment rentals places as well. I am not sure if this is all true or if perhaps my niece is misunderstanding the agreements or if she just don't want to change the plans at this point.



And yes, they are both really young and if it was my child, I would have encouraged them to wait a while to get engaged and married.

I paid for my wedding, money was tight, but a small affair was what I wanted.
Problem was that I was still put under pressure to have a big wedding. 60 guests was allI wanted. 20 from my side, 20 from his and 20 friends. In the end both sides invited more and against my wishes, there was about 120 guests.

And I heard complaints that the morning wedding with branch was not elegant enough, short and so on

Your sister's leap into wedding planning and financing, and her lack of planning for college and retirement seem to be part of a bigger problem of financial mismanagement. I hope her daughter can learn from this and how unwise it is. How money management can become linked to relationship strain. Money is one of the biggest fights many couples have.

However, I believe in keeping promises, too, and this sounds like an oft-repeated promise. Is there any compromise here? Mom offers to pay $5,000 toward wedding. Or some other split she can afford and manage.

And she needs to think ahead. Whatever she gives one daughter, she should give to the second daughter, too. Or there are even more hurt feelings to be had.

Both mother and daughter were purposely blind to reality here. At a certain point their fantasy bubble and showcase shopping trip was popped. They are both at fault, because it was a kind of folie a deux. But stay out of it.

Your sister is a freaking moron. Who the hell takes out a loan to pay for a wedding?!

Your niece is a brat. Who the hell demands their parents pay for ANYTHING for them when
1. they are an adult
2. their parent has flat out said they can't afford it

Who gets married at 22? If my 22 yr old told me she was getting married, i would try to talk some sense into her, not get all excited about the wedding.

Maybe she could skip out of paying fir this one, but offer tobpay for the inevitable second wedding?

If sister is smart she'll own up to the fact that she (and dad? what about him, in all this?) got carried away with excitement and way, way overpromised. If she's smart and gracious she will tell her daughter and daughter's fiancé very directly, "I'm sorry. This is on me and I admit I got carried away and raised your hopes too far, because I'm excited about your marriage. I know I backed out on a promise. But these college tuitions are a promise too, and that obligation was made much earlier. A wedding is a wonderful party and a beautiful day and I will help you to the hilt to find affordable alternatives, but we cannot afford what I promised you, and we cannot take out a loan. I apologize for that deeply and I understand that you're upset. But letting you start your married life based on our taking out loans when we have other debts already would be setting a very poor financial example for a young couple."

If the niece cannot get past this, I would fear for her and her marriage. She is pretty young. She and her fiancé may have a case of "wedding blindness" where they can't see past the fabulous party and look at what a real marriage is like. I hope that at 22 the girl can't manage to get any loans herself. It would be rotten to start a marriage in debt because of one day's party. Yes, people do it, and it's stupid.

I think your sister is right NOT to cave and go ahead to pay for this wedding just to "keep her word." It would be cheating the younger child to go into debt just as she is getting ready to enter college. Your sister knew that in the end. The prior obligation is to tuitions and retirement savings. Niece probably can't understand the importance of the retirement savings right now but sister ought to, and clearly does. Tell your sister that you support HER entirely and encourage her to be a good example to all her kids by admitting her error but also sticking to the real-world financial picture here. Tell her that

OP, don't get involved other than by supporting your sister when you talk with her. If niece vents to you, have your sister's back consistently but kindly.

BTW, I agree with the PP who said sister should pay any non-refundable deposits that must be forfeited. I hope there aren't any or they're not much.

I can't be the only one stuck on the part where they didn't realize they had college tuitions to pay for and retirement...wait what?

Parents have said what they will pay
(even if it's annoying that it's a correction. Sorry they don't have their sh*t together)

Aside for that ~ it's no one's business.

Yikes! My advice to you is stay out of it!

My opinion on the situation is that your sister should apologize and offer to cover any non-refundable deposits that were made based on her promise to pay and then have a frank discussion with her daughter about what they collectively can actually afford.