Anonymous wrote:

PP here, you've never had an experience with a teacher who was checked out? I've had some wonderful teachers and did well in those years, standardized tests wouldn't have been an issue because I learned a lot. But I also had a third grade teacher who was completely checked out, who literally let all of us do independent study all year for math and reading (here's your workbook and your reader, do as much as you'd like, let me know if you have questions) and gave me perfect grades despite the fact that I never turned in a single assigned project. I got nothing out of that year. My sister was written off year and year by teachers through elementary school due to undiagnosed learning disabilities, it wasn't until fifth grade that a teacher took and interest and realized what was really going on. She was terribly behind by that point, and since the school wasn't acknowledging it, my mother didn't realize it. And this was in a top school system.

How we use those assessments (e.g., how they relate to teacher performance standards) may need some tweaking, but I absolutely think it's in kids' best interests to have regular standardized tests to make sure children are actually learning what they need to know to progress and can't fall through the cracks due to sheer (willful?) ignorance.

Which school district was this?

Shouldn't teacher performance be monitored by administrative observations before the end of the year testing? It seems like it's too late to wait for test results to find out that teachers are just passing out workbooks or that kids are being "written off" year after year.

I was given books to read on my own in elementary school, but that was because I was way ahead and the teacher had to help the lower level students. I did not actually suffer from this (at least I've done well in life despite this independent style of learning).

I don't want to give away too much identifying information, but it was a school system on Long Island, one of the best outside of NYC. Obviously the school should have been aware of what was going on and addressed it in both of these cases, but they didn't. And without a means to know that the good grades their children were bringing home were meaningless (because my sister was given near-top grades despite not actually learning anything), my parents weren't in a great position to realize what was going on and intervene. They knew my sister wasn't progressing as quickly as I was, but I was also labeled gifted very young and my sister wasn't, so they never expected my sister to perform where I did. Finding out at year end isn't the ideal situation, but far better at the end of the year than three years after that.

As for you doing well despite being given books to read on your own, can you really not see the difference between that situation and a teacher simply giving a math workbook and instructions to simply show her each page after we were done, with no accountability for whether we'd done anything? Seriously, I went an entire quarter at one point without showing that teacher any work of any form in any subject, still got perfect grades. Fortunately I had a fourth grade teacher (and natural aptitude) who got me straightened out, but I wouldn't assume everyone was as fortunate.

PP here, you've never had an experience with a teacher who was checked out? I've had some wonderful teachers and did well in those years, standardized tests wouldn't have been an issue because I learned a lot. But I also had a third grade teacher who was completely checked out, who literally let all of us do independent study all year for math and reading (here's your workbook and your reader, do as much as you'd like, let me know if you have questions) and gave me perfect grades despite the fact that I never turned in a single assigned project. I got nothing out of that year. My sister was written off year and year by teachers through elementary school due to undiagnosed learning disabilities, it wasn't until fifth grade that a teacher took and interest and realized what was really going on. She was terribly behind by that point, and since the school wasn't acknowledging it, my mother didn't realize it. And this was in a top school system.

How we use those assessments (e.g., how they relate to teacher performance standards) may need some tweaking, but I absolutely think it's in kids' best interests to have regular standardized tests to make sure children are actually learning what they need to know to progress and can't fall through the cracks due to sheer (willful?) ignorance.

Which school district was this?

Shouldn't teacher performance be monitored by administrative observations before the end of the year testing? It seems like it's too late to wait for test results to find out that teachers are just passing out workbooks or that kids are being "written off" year after year.

I was given books to read on my own in elementary school, but that was because I was way ahead and the teacher had to help the lower level students. I did not actually suffer from this (at least I've done well in life despite this independent style of learning).

My issue is not so much with taking a year-end assessment, but rather how those assessments are written and worded. They are very confusing, with some questions asking "which answer is the best choice," meaning they're all correct, but the student must make a subjective guess as to which one they consider "best". Or the question will be worded in a very roundabout way, ensuring some students just aren't going to understand what is asked, even if they would have known the correct answer had the question had been asked in a straightforward way. If our kids must be tested, at least let the test be easy to understand and not full of trick questions.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:What would be easier, and would help your student greatly, is to pressure your superintendent to cut down on the amount of pre-SOL standardized testing, such as eCarts (FCPS) and IA testing (APS) that goes on all year. This testing, done so that the superintendents can check up on principals and teachers constantly, cuts class instructional time considerably and creates additional stress for the students.

Yes. Bingo.

Anonymous wrote:

So you can find out in sixth grade that your kid basically stopped understanding math in fourth grade? There may be value in adjusting the format of the test, but some kind of evaluation at the end of each year to make sure children are continuing to progress against a standard baseline (as opposed to whatever the teacher decides is enough) is critical to holding school systems accountable and making sure children don't fall through the cracks.

Sad statement that a parent has so little faith in the teachers. Almost seems like he/she has no faith in the system at all. Gee, I wonder how we all learned math without all this standardized testing.

FYI, the teachers are the best judge.

PP here, you've never had an experience with a teacher who was checked out? I've had some wonderful teachers and did well in those years, standardized tests wouldn't have been an issue because I learned a lot. But I also had a third grade teacher who was completely checked out, who literally let all of us do independent study all year for math and reading (here's your workbook and your reader, do as much as you'd like, let me know if you have questions) and gave me perfect grades despite the fact that I never turned in a single assigned project. I got nothing out of that year. My sister was written off year and year by teachers through elementary school due to undiagnosed learning disabilities, it wasn't until fifth grade that a teacher took and interest and realized what was really going on. She was terribly behind by that point, and since the school wasn't acknowledging it, my mother didn't realize it. And this was in a top school system.

How we use those assessments (e.g., how they relate to teacher performance standards) may need some tweaking, but I absolutely think it's in kids' best interests to have regular standardized tests to make sure children are actually learning what they need to know to progress and can't fall through the cracks due to sheer (willful?) ignorance.

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps the problem is less that students must take the tests but more what the scores are being used to measure. If we used them as markers of a student's yearly progress for the sake of helping our kids learn better, that would be one thing. But the high stakes implications the scores have on teachers, schools, and school systems have lead to the current state of testing frenzy, and without change in the purpose of the tests, the culture surrounding them won't change, either.

Want change to happen? As others have mentioned, contact your government representatives. Opting your kid out of the test is one step, but it will not draw attention on a larger scale. Getting an entire school's worth of parents on board might send a stronger message, but still, those on the decision-making end in government need to hear.

+1
My issue is not so much with taking a year-end assessment, but rather how those assessments are written and worded. They are very confusing, with some questions asking "which answer is the best choice," meaning they're all correct, but the student must make a subjective guess as to which one they consider "best". Or the question will be worded in a very roundabout way, ensuring some students just aren't going to understand what is asked, even if they would have known the correct answer had the question had been asked in a straightforward way. If our kids must be tested, at least let the test be easy to understand and not full of trick questions.

Anonymous wrote:We just didn't take them and won't until she is in HS. DD was one of two that didn't. There is a growing number planning to opt out next year. "I didn't know you could do that".

I would like to opt my DC out as well, but what do they wind up doing while the other kids are taking their SOLs?

At the high school level you can substitute achievement tests for the SOLs. I don't think a lot of people are aware of that. If you get a certain score on specific tests you don't need to take the SOL.

Anonymous wrote:

So you can find out in sixth grade that your kid basically stopped understanding math in fourth grade? There may be value in adjusting the format of the test, but some kind of evaluation at the end of each year to make sure children are continuing to progress against a standard baseline (as opposed to whatever the teacher decides is enough) is critical to holding school systems accountable and making sure children don't fall through the cracks.

Sad statement that a parent has so little faith in the teachers. Almost seems like he/she has no faith in the system at all. Gee, I wonder how we all learned math without all this standardized testing.

FYI, the teachers are the best judge.

The thing is we did have standardized testing growing up. I grew up with more standardized tests than Virginia has now. I started in 1st grade and had at least 5 tests each year. I have no idea why parents now are against standardized testing. I'm not a big fan of computerized tests, but apparently they are cheaper and give results quicker so that teachers can help all children achieve a minimum passing rate by the end of the year.

You can find out how your child is doing by doing Khan Academy every so often or having them do a practice SOL. VDOE could leave practice tests out for those who want to see how their child is doing OR just send test results home. If your child isn't doing well then you would know. The parent could then contact the teacher to see what's going on. That's how is used to work in the old days.

So you can find out in sixth grade that your kid basically stopped understanding math in fourth grade? There may be value in adjusting the format of the test, but some kind of evaluation at the end of each year to make sure children are continuing to progress against a standard baseline (as opposed to whatever the teacher decides is enough) is critical to holding school systems accountable and making sure children don't fall through the cracks.

Sad statement that a parent has so little faith in the teachers. Almost seems like he/she has no faith in the system at all. Gee, I wonder how we all learned math without all this standardized testing.

FYI, the teachers are the best judge.

Perhaps the problem is less that students must take the tests but more what the scores are being used to measure. If we used them as markers of a student's yearly progress for the sake of helping our kids learn better, that would be one thing. But the high stakes implications the scores have on teachers, schools, and school systems have lead to the current state of testing frenzy, and without change in the purpose of the tests, the culture surrounding them won't change, either.

Want change to happen? As others have mentioned, contact your government representatives. Opting your kid out of the test is one step, but it will not draw attention on a larger scale. Getting an entire school's worth of parents on board might send a stronger message, but still, those on the decision-making end in government need to hear.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some ways to advocate to reduce the amount of SOL testing?

I know the SOL requirements come from Richmond (General Assembly) and I know Dels. Tag Greason and Rob Krupicka organized the successful effort to reduce the number of SOLs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/virginia-students-will-take-fewer-standards-of-learning-tests-next-year/2014/04/05/eea18666-bb46-11e3-9a05-c739f29ccb08_story.html

But how can parents advocate to further reduce the number of SOLs? Why is it necessary to have 3rd grade students (as an example) take so many SOLs compared to all the other assessments already in place?

My 3rd grader will take 2 tests - Math and English. I don't think 2 tests are too many. I don't think folks want to find out in 5th grade that their kid can't read or multiply.

My child's 3rd grade class spent 6 1/2 hours in the computer lab over 2 days for JUST the math. That is not OK.

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why we need a math and reading SOL every year. I would like them reduced to every other year or just to 3rd and 6th.

So you can find out in sixth grade that your kid basically stopped understanding math in fourth grade? There may be value in adjusting the format of the test, but some kind of evaluation at the end of each year to make sure children are continuing to progress against a standard baseline (as opposed to whatever the teacher decides is enough) is critical to holding school systems accountable and making sure children don't fall through the cracks.

Anonymous wrote:What are some ways to advocate to reduce the amount of SOL testing?

I know the SOL requirements come from Richmond (General Assembly) and I know Dels. Tag Greason and Rob Krupicka organized the successful effort to reduce the number of SOLs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/virginia-students-will-take-fewer-standards-of-learning-tests-next-year/2014/04/05/eea18666-bb46-11e3-9a05-c739f29ccb08_story.html

But how can parents advocate to further reduce the number of SOLs? Why is it necessary to have 3rd grade students (as an example) take so many SOLs compared to all the other assessments already in place?

My 3rd grader will take 2 tests - Math and English. I don't think 2 tests are too many. I don't think folks want to find out in 5th grade that their kid can't read or multiply.