Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple of thousand gay friendly folks flying to cast a ballot did not make these numbers. The church rolled over because of its weak position.

No, but those few thousand were symptomatic of the larger social movement.

I'm not sure why it makes you feel better to blame the church, but it's just not true. This was a social and political statement, not a religious one.

It's the death knell of catholic ireland.

It certainly represents a shift to a different kind of religious culture. Given that old-school Irish Catholicism represented some horrific abuses against women and children, I think it's all to the good and the best shot Catholicism has of surviving in some form.

And when I say "children" I'm not talking about gay priests or whatever. My wife went to a Catholic school in Ireland in the 1960s. The nuns regularly beat and belittled the girls, and this was business as usual. I'm glad the world has moved on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple of thousand gay friendly folks flying to cast a ballot did not make these numbers. The church rolled over because of its weak position.

No, but those few thousand were symptomatic of the larger social movement.

I'm not sure why it makes you feel better to blame the church, but it's just not true. This was a social and political statement, not a religious one.

It's the death knell of catholic ireland.

Anonymous wrote:A couple of thousand gay friendly folks flying to cast a ballot did not make these numbers. The church rolled over because of its weak position.

No, but those few thousand were symptomatic of the larger social movement.

I'm not sure why it makes you feel better to blame the church, but it's just not true. This was a social and political statement, not a religious one.

A couple of thousand gay friendly folks flying to cast a ballot did not make these numbers. The church rolled over because of its weak position.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, an eerie quiet from conservative american catholics.

Not quiet at all - Irish clergy drove the church off a cliff their with their predominantly gay sex scandals.

LOLOLOL. Are you saying that the overwhelming Yes vote was because of the sex scandals? Have you ever been to Ireland, or do you actually know any Irish people?

I've spent extensive time there and still have many friends there. This had nothing, zip, zero to do with any sex scandals. Thousands of emigrant youth didn't fly home to vote to express their feelings about the Catholic Church. This was, if it was a referendum on anything except marriage equality, an expression that young Irish people are interested in the future and a change from the status quo. They wanted something to believe in and care about. So much energy, love, and creativity went into the Yes campaign. It's enough to make even a wizened old cynic like me dab a tear. The kids are all right .

The No side wasn't louder because it didn't have the numbers and knew it. The polling on this has been clear since the start. The demographic and cultural shift was too overwhelming; faced with an extremely energetic and clever Yes campaign, they weakly waved a few signs and then sighed and gave up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, an eerie quiet from conservative american catholics.

Not quiet at all - Irish clergy drove the church off a cliff their with their predominantly gay sex scandals.

oh i know, i meant in reaction to the "YES" vote.

One and the same- this was a (negative) referendum on the Irish church.

That suggests that the Catholic Church in Ireland had a vocal campaign for a no vote on the referendum. And the voters thumbed their nose at the church and voted the other way. That just isn't the case. This vote was evidence of the lack of influence the church's had on its congregation over the past 20 years, since the abuse scandals. But it certainly wasn't a referendum on the church itself, which was unusually quiet on the referendum, except for a few public comments in the past couple of weeks.

I am sorry you are missing the larger picture including the reason why the church was fairly silent on the question.

So fill us in

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, an eerie quiet from conservative american catholics.

Not quiet at all - Irish clergy drove the church off a cliff their with their predominantly gay sex scandals.

oh i know, i meant in reaction to the "YES" vote.

One and the same- this was a (negative) referendum on the Irish church.

That suggests that the Catholic Church in Ireland had a vocal campaign for a no vote on the referendum. And the voters thumbed their nose at the church and voted the other way. That just isn't the case. This vote was evidence of the lack of influence the church's had on its congregation over the past 20 years, since the abuse scandals. But it certainly wasn't a referendum on the church itself, which was unusually quiet on the referendum, except for a few public comments in the past couple of weeks.

I am sorry you are missing the larger picture including the reason why the church was fairly silent on the question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, an eerie quiet from conservative american catholics.

Not quiet at all - Irish clergy drove the church off a cliff their with their predominantly gay sex scandals.

oh i know, i meant in reaction to the "YES" vote.

One and the same- this was a (negative) referendum on the Irish church.

That suggests that the Catholic Church in Ireland had a vocal campaign for a no vote on the referendum. And the voters thumbed their nose at the church and voted the other way. That just isn't the case. This vote was evidence of the lack of influence the church's had on its congregation over the past 20 years, since the abuse scandals. But it certainly wasn't a referendum on the church itself, which was unusually quiet on the referendum, except for a few public comments in the past couple of weeks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, an eerie quiet from conservative american catholics.

Not quiet at all - Irish clergy drove the church off a cliff their with their predominantly gay sex scandals.

oh i know, i meant in reaction to the "YES" vote.

One and the same- this was a (negative) referendum on the Irish church.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, an eerie quiet from conservative american catholics.

Not quiet at all - Irish clergy drove the church off a cliff their with their predominantly gay sex scandals.

oh i know, i meant in reaction to the "YES" vote.

What comes with this? Legal adoptions? Married school teaching where it's a he he situation?

Anonymous wrote:yes, an eerie quiet from conservative american catholics.

Not quiet at all - Irish clergy drove the church off a cliff their with their predominantly gay sex scandals.

yes, an eerie quiet from conservative american catholics.

Anonymous wrote:of the term in a 2010 article. She states that it is a variation of ephebophilia, used by Magnus Hirschfeld in 1906 to describe homosexual attraction to males between puberty and their early twenties, who considered the condition normal and nonpathological.

Doesn't sound gender neutral to me- what a deceiver you are!

of the term in a 2010 article. She states that it is a variation of ephebophilia, used by Magnus Hirschfeld in 1906 to describe homosexual attraction to males between puberty and their early twenties, who considered the condition normal and nonpathological.