Anonymous
Post 05/04/2015 09:11     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which is a harder more detailed test CogAT or WISC IV?


I think WISC is taken more seriously because it is individually administered by a licensed psychologist, rather than given by a teacher to a group. And (maybe more importantly) because FCPS parents are notorious about COGAT prepping, but you're not supposed to be able to prep for an IQ test / WISC (but if there is a way I'm sure FCPS parents have found it)


The psychologist will be asked to provide a copy of their license.
Plenty of parents look for an auntie in the field, and some psychologists are known for rounding up/writing similar reports for each kid.

AAP is on to those doctors who score for cash, so keep in mind not all practioners are looked at in the same light.

The the poster who had a GBRS of 12, that's a pretty great score. A 10 is faint praise. A 12 is better than most and can handle challenges most of the time.
The reading scores matter, too.

If a kid has a low DRA, they probably won't be able to keep up with the content.
Anonymous
Post 05/04/2015 06:41     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
Anonymous wrote:Our DD, now in 5th grade, had borderline COGAT/ NNAT scores and was not initially admitted. We did a private WISC, which was strong (FS 134, with a 140 verbal) & Woodcock Johnson and decided, on the basis on those scores and a discussion with the psychologist who administered them, to appeal. She was admitted on appeal, and is doing very well, socially and academically, in a very competitive center, so we certainly feel we made the right decision. That said, said, if her WISC scores had been lower, we probably would have thought twice about appealing.


Oh brother!
Anonymous
Post 05/04/2015 06:40     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
Anonymous wrote:We got in on appeal. I felt that we hadn't put in a good work sample, and his teacher thought he was much less smart that I know him to be.

The WISC had several extraordinarily high sub-categories paired with some areas where he had sub 50th percentile skills (well, handwriting and some associated reading/writing).
He actually had dysgraphia that was just manifesting as the writing demands got higher.


He' now in 5th grade AAP and it's been a great experience. The teachers are great, the curriculum seems to involve a lot of independent and group projects, and honestly, I'd've loved to have a program that fantastic as a child.

And, I'm glad we did the WISC as it's been valuable in deciding to get him tested, which got him a 504 (largely extra time on writing assignments) and extra teacher attention when he needs it. Even it if doesn't show any problems, its a very interesting way to think about learning and thinking.


Just like real life!
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 23:12     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So, the idea is to take the WISC first -- if the the score is 129+ then appeal -- all before 5/28/15?


Unfortunately yes. Try GMU-- they have lots of testers & can probably do the fastest turn around. Or if you can't get one fast enough, and are in a LLIV school, you can use it to argue for principal placement. Or use it to reapply next year. It's sad, but in term of timing,kids "on the bubble" probably should WISC before denials come out.


What is Principal Placement? How does that work?


In schools with LLIV programs (and maybe some centers) the AAP class or classes may not entirely fill out (say, there are 16 kids who stay in the LLIV program, but the average class size is 24). In this case, principals "place" kids who would benefit from/ can handle the program to fill out the class. My DS had about 7 kids "placed" into his class, but DD had none because 32 kids qualified. I think in some schools' principal placement standards are transparent, but in ours, it was a mystery. Teacher recommendations? Pushy parents? Politics? In pool kids who just missed? Who knows... So, if you get a high WISC, writing a letter requesting principal placement might work-- especially if the WISC looks makes it look like DC will track into AAP the next year, and the psychologist who administers it recommends AAP services. But, this only applies only if your base school has a local level 4 center (or maybe if you base school is a center that is not overcrowded???).

Good luck!! I know it's stressful. I would never fault anyone for fighting for their kid. But most FCPS schools have strong Gen Ed programs, and many, many kids thrive academically without setting foot in an AAP classroom. In fact, DD had 2 friends who moved from AAP to Gen Ed for various reasons and are doing very well. Please believe that AAP is not guarantee of a successful life, and that your DC will almost certainly do well no matter how this works out for you.


Wow! Thanks for the very informative and encouraging post. I had NO idea about principal placement but I can kinda see how some kids in DC's school may have used that option for acceptance into AAP. Unfortunately, DC doesn't attend an academically challenging elementary school and the administration is including the AART have been elusive and apathetic to say the least. And while the school does have a local level IV program, it is mediocre at best. DC is beyond bored in Gen Ed and I'm hoping for be admission to the AAP center school for which we are zoned.

I sincerely believe that there definitely are some fantastic schools in the County, with fantastic teachers who are expanding the the Gen Ed curricula to challenge students. I wouldn't be concerned with AAP if DC attended a stronger school that offered differentiated lesson plans within the classroom (I know a few schools in Mclean, Vienna and Great Falls that do this).

Thanks again for the wise words! Onto WISC IV...
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 21:47     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
Anonymous wrote:Which is a harder more detailed test CogAT or WISC IV?


I think WISC is taken more seriously because it is individually administered by a licensed psychologist, rather than given by a teacher to a group. And (maybe more importantly) because FCPS parents are notorious about COGAT prepping, but you're not supposed to be able to prep for an IQ test / WISC (but if there is a way I'm sure FCPS parents have found it)
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 21:41     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So, the idea is to take the WISC first -- if the the score is 129+ then appeal -- all before 5/28/15?


Unfortunately yes. Try GMU-- they have lots of testers & can probably do the fastest turn around. Or if you can't get one fast enough, and are in a LLIV school, you can use it to argue for principal placement. Or use it to reapply next year. It's sad, but in term of timing,kids "on the bubble" probably should WISC before denials come out.


What is Principal Placement? How does that work?


In schools with LLIV programs (and maybe some centers) the AAP class or classes may not entirely fill out (say, there are 16 kids who stay in the LLIV program, but the average class size is 24). In this case, principals "place" kids who would benefit from/ can handle the program to fill out the class. My DS had about 7 kids "placed" into his class, but DD had none because 32 kids qualified. I think in some schools' principal placement standards are transparent, but in ours, it was a mystery. Teacher recommendations? Pushy parents? Politics? In pool kids who just missed? Who knows... So, if you get a high WISC, writing a letter requesting principal placement might work-- especially if the WISC looks makes it look like DC will track into AAP the next year, and the psychologist who administers it recommends AAP services. But, this only applies only if your base school has a local level 4 center (or maybe if you base school is a center that is not overcrowded???).

Good luck!! I know it's stressful. I would never fault anyone for fighting for their kid. But most FCPS schools have strong Gen Ed programs, and many, many kids thrive academically without setting foot in an AAP classroom. In fact, DD had 2 friends who moved from AAP to Gen Ed for various reasons and are doing very well. Please believe that AAP is not guarantee of a successful life, and that your DC will almost certainly do well no matter how this works out for you.
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 21:31     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
Which is a harder more detailed test CogAT or WISC IV?
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 20:54     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So, the idea is to take the WISC first -- if the the score is 129+ then appeal -- all before 5/28/15?


Unfortunately yes. Try GMU-- they have lots of testers & can probably do the fastest turn around. Or if you can't get one fast enough, and are in a LLIV school, you can use it to argue for principal placement. Or use it to reapply next year. It's sad, but in term of timing,kids "on the bubble" probably should WISC before denials come out.


What is Principal Placement? How does that work?
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 20:52     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So, the idea is to take the WISC first -- if the the score is 129+ then appeal -- all before 5/28/15?


Unfortunately yes. Try GMU-- they have lots of testers & can probably do the fastest turn around. Or if you can't get one fast enough, and are in a LLIV school, you can use it to argue for principal placement. Or use it to reapply next year. It's sad, but in term of timing,kids "on the bubble" probably should WISC before denials come out.


Thanks, PP. I should have thought about scheduling a WISC before receiving the ineligibility letter. DD was definitely below cut-off but teacher encouraged us to apply. Saw screening file and discovered that DC only received a GBRS of 12. Oh well.

Will give GMU a call tomorrow! If anything, the information from the WISC will be very useful...but $400? Yikes!
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 20:09     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
Anonymous wrote:So, the idea is to take the WISC first -- if the the score is 129+ then appeal -- all before 5/28/15?


Unfortunately yes. Try GMU-- they have lots of testers & can probably do the fastest turn around. Or if you can't get one fast enough, and are in a LLIV school, you can use it to argue for principal placement. Or use it to reapply next year. It's sad, but in term of timing,kids "on the bubble" probably should WISC before denials come out.
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 17:58     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
We got in on appeal. I felt that we hadn't put in a good work sample, and his teacher thought he was much less smart that I know him to be.

The WISC had several extraordinarily high sub-categories paired with some areas where he had sub 50th percentile skills (well, handwriting and some associated reading/writing).
He actually had dysgraphia that was just manifesting as the writing demands got higher.


He' now in 5th grade AAP and it's been a great experience. The teachers are great, the curriculum seems to involve a lot of independent and group projects, and honestly, I'd've loved to have a program that fantastic as a child.

And, I'm glad we did the WISC as it's been valuable in deciding to get him tested, which got him a 504 (largely extra time on writing assignments) and extra teacher attention when he needs it. Even it if doesn't show any problems, its a very interesting way to think about learning and thinking.
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 17:44     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
So, the idea is to take the WISC first -- if the the score is 129+ then appeal -- all before 5/28/15?
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 17:44     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
So, the idea is to take the WISC first -- if the the score is 129+ then appeal -- all before 5/28/15?
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 17:23     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
When do they start writing book reports? Are there class reading lists? Does the class read and discuss books together?
Anonymous
Post 05/03/2015 17:21     Subject: EXPERIENCE WITH THE APPEAL PROCESS
Our DD, now in 5th grade, had borderline COGAT/ NNAT scores and was not initially admitted. We did a private WISC, which was strong (FS 134, with a 140 verbal) & Woodcock Johnson and decided, on the basis on those scores and a discussion with the psychologist who administered them, to appeal. She was admitted on appeal, and is doing very well, socially and academically, in a very competitive center, so we certainly feel we made the right decision. That said, said, if her WISC scores had been lower, we probably would have thought twice about appealing.