Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 10:14     Subject: Re:What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:When you have infertility it is always a struggle for others to understand this is a medical condition and not say a lifestyle choice of wanting to have kids in your 50 s (generally speaking of course). We need ART to have children... and many of us from young ages. .. and no amount of what we can do (eating well etc) will change that. There is so much offensive bias against us. So I think we are even more protective of ART being medically guided because it could open a Pandora ' s box If ART is accessible to the non infertile to do things like gender selection. Imagine what would happen in China! I remember reading something where someone did not choose donor egg because it felt too much like the handmaid s tale. Well some people cannot birth children of their own without donor egg so that mentality is very hurtful and we have to fight against it always and ... say hey...I need this medically. So again if donor egg or other ART becomes about vanity we lose something... as it does become handmaids taleish. So while I would not say I would never do what op wants. .. if I had NINE embryos maybe I would., I am uncomfortable with this direction for ART.


8:16 again. If the OP were creating embryos to select sex, then this argument would apply, but her embryos are already sitting out there and just need to be tested. She isn't going to transfer 9 more embryos, so embryos will not be transferred regardless of whether she chooses which embryo to transfer or the embryologist does.


Not entirely right: with ART, you pick the embryos that have the best chance of resulting in a baby. Dr chooses that for a medical reason, and in many cases on this board, we are so desperate to have a child we would not risk NOT picking the best embryo. I'm not saying I wouldn't do what OP proposes, but it is different than how decisions are made from a purely ART perspective. OP is introducing vanity into an otherwise medical procedure. And that is a moral slippery slope.


I'm the 8:16 PP. Once you've done the genetic testing, the normals are all considered equal, at least at my clinic, so choosing between a genetically normal male embryo and a genetically normal female embryo is a wash, medically speaking. At my clinic the embryos are numbered and they just go down the list (e.g., first transfer would be with normal embryo #1, etc.).


I'm the poster above. So are you telling me a doctor just flips a coin on the one to pick? I would be surprised if that is the case and a medical choice is not made. But let's say it is literally a coin flip..so as you say, why not let the parent's flip the coin as they would like it to fall. I still say--and I think you have to admit there is something morally risky about gender selection. Again, I use the example of China and other cultures where infanticide exists. Imagine if gender selection were available to all? You could end up with a culture of boys only, or boys to the highest payer. That being said, I am 100% not saying I, or, OP should not do this. But I think you have to be honest that it is opening a Pandora's box and I hope those in charge (medical ethical boards) are careful in approving this.


I agree with you about the ethical slippery slope. I spoke to the embryologists about how they select the embryos once they have been tested. The normal embryos are numbered and they go down the list, starting with #1. I was coming at from a different perspective than OP. I had the testing done for non-gender-related reasons and did not want to see a copy of the report or know how many were XX and how many were XY.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 09:51     Subject: Re:What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:When you have infertility it is always a struggle for others to understand this is a medical condition and not say a lifestyle choice of wanting to have kids in your 50 s (generally speaking of course). We need ART to have children... and many of us from young ages. .. and no amount of what we can do (eating well etc) will change that. There is so much offensive bias against us. So I think we are even more protective of ART being medically guided because it could open a Pandora ' s box If ART is accessible to the non infertile to do things like gender selection. Imagine what would happen in China! I remember reading something where someone did not choose donor egg because it felt too much like the handmaid s tale. Well some people cannot birth children of their own without donor egg so that mentality is very hurtful and we have to fight against it always and ... say hey...I need this medically. So again if donor egg or other ART becomes about vanity we lose something... as it does become handmaids taleish. So while I would not say I would never do what op wants. .. if I had NINE embryos maybe I would., I am uncomfortable with this direction for ART.


8:16 again. If the OP were creating embryos to select sex, then this argument would apply, but her embryos are already sitting out there and just need to be tested. She isn't going to transfer 9 more embryos, so embryos will not be transferred regardless of whether she chooses which embryo to transfer or the embryologist does.


Not entirely right: with ART, you pick the embryos that have the best chance of resulting in a baby. Dr chooses that for a medical reason, and in many cases on this board, we are so desperate to have a child we would not risk NOT picking the best embryo. I'm not saying I wouldn't do what OP proposes, but it is different than how decisions are made from a purely ART perspective. OP is introducing vanity into an otherwise medical procedure. And that is a moral slippery slope.


I'm the 8:16 PP. Once you've done the genetic testing, the normals are all considered equal, at least at my clinic, so choosing between a genetically normal male embryo and a genetically normal female embryo is a wash, medically speaking. At my clinic the embryos are numbered and they just go down the list (e.g., first transfer would be with normal embryo #1, etc.).


I'm the poster above. So are you telling me a doctor just flips a coin on the one to pick? I would be surprised if that is the case and a medical choice is not made. But let's say it is literally a coin flip..so as you say, why not let the parent's flip the coin as they would like it to fall. I still say--and I think you have to admit there is something morally risky about gender selection. Again, I use the example of China and other cultures where infanticide exists. Imagine if gender selection were available to all? You could end up with a culture of boys only, or boys to the highest payer. That being said, I am 100% not saying I, or, OP should not do this. But I think you have to be honest that it is opening a Pandora's box and I hope those in charge (medical ethical boards) are careful in approving this.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 09:49     Subject: What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
Just my 2 cents and nothing more. We did fertility treatment at SGF but didn't require IVF. Still after experiencing infertility, I can't imagine selecting gender. I will admit to really wanting girls and being initially disappointed (for a few days) when #2 and #3 were revealed by the sono to be boys. Fast forward almost a decade. My two boys are the most wonderful people. Being a mom of boys was nothing like I envisioned. It's 100x better! My guys are such a tremendous gift. Flipside is that life with a daughter also wasn't the rosy picture I envisioned. Thank goodness I didn't get what I thought I wanted. Girls and boys defy stereotypes everyday and there are no guarantees that the embryo you select is the child you will get.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 09:46     Subject: What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
Will you do PGS regardless, to test for viability and health related issues?

I wouldn't go in there and muck with my embryos just to make a gender selection.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 09:42     Subject: What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
OP I don't have information for you, but i do hope you get to make the election you want.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 09:38     Subject: Re:What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
OP here. I understand that you are looking at this from your own angle, but things are different for us. If we use these embryos at all (it's not a given), we'd use only one out of nine. Why shouldn't we be allowed to decide which one, out of the healthy ones, we choose, assuming there are several? One of them will get chosen based on certain conditions, it's not a random pick. So why shouldn't we be allowed to pick one based on conditions that are important to us?


OP. Part of typical allele screening including figuring out the gender. The reports from the labs include whether it's an XX or XY as some abnormalities link to the Y chromosomes, only. So when it's all said and done, let's say you have 9 genetically normal embryos that are recommended for transfer, then you can say which ones you want. But you likely cannot just ask for gender screening/testing.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 09:37     Subject: Re:What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:When you have infertility it is always a struggle for others to understand this is a medical condition and not say a lifestyle choice of wanting to have kids in your 50 s (generally speaking of course). We need ART to have children... and many of us from young ages. .. and no amount of what we can do (eating well etc) will change that. There is so much offensive bias against us. So I think we are even more protective of ART being medically guided because it could open a Pandora ' s box If ART is accessible to the non infertile to do things like gender selection. Imagine what would happen in China! I remember reading something where someone did not choose donor egg because it felt too much like the handmaid s tale. Well some people cannot birth children of their own without donor egg so that mentality is very hurtful and we have to fight against it always and ... say hey...I need this medically. So again if donor egg or other ART becomes about vanity we lose something... as it does become handmaids taleish. So while I would not say I would never do what op wants. .. if I had NINE embryos maybe I would., I am uncomfortable with this direction for ART.


8:16 again. If the OP were creating embryos to select sex, then this argument would apply, but her embryos are already sitting out there and just need to be tested. She isn't going to transfer 9 more embryos, so embryos will not be transferred regardless of whether she chooses which embryo to transfer or the embryologist does.


Not entirely right: with ART, you pick the embryos that have the best chance of resulting in a baby. Dr chooses that for a medical reason, and in many cases on this board, we are so desperate to have a child we would not risk NOT picking the best embryo. I'm not saying I wouldn't do what OP proposes, but it is different than how decisions are made from a purely ART perspective. OP is introducing vanity into an otherwise medical procedure. And that is a moral slippery slope.


I'm the 8:16 PP. Once you've done the genetic testing, the normals are all considered equal, at least at my clinic, so choosing between a genetically normal male embryo and a genetically normal female embryo is a wash, medically speaking. At my clinic the embryos are numbered and they just go down the list (e.g., first transfer would be with normal embryo #1, etc.).
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 09:26     Subject: Re:What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:When you have infertility it is always a struggle for others to understand this is a medical condition and not say a lifestyle choice of wanting to have kids in your 50 s (generally speaking of course). We need ART to have children... and many of us from young ages. .. and no amount of what we can do (eating well etc) will change that. There is so much offensive bias against us. So I think we are even more protective of ART being medically guided because it could open a Pandora ' s box If ART is accessible to the non infertile to do things like gender selection. Imagine what would happen in China! I remember reading something where someone did not choose donor egg because it felt too much like the handmaid s tale. Well some people cannot birth children of their own without donor egg so that mentality is very hurtful and we have to fight against it always and ... say hey...I need this medically. So again if donor egg or other ART becomes about vanity we lose something... as it does become handmaids taleish. So while I would not say I would never do what op wants. .. if I had NINE embryos maybe I would., I am uncomfortable with this direction for ART.


8:16 again. If the OP were creating embryos to select sex, then this argument would apply, but her embryos are already sitting out there and just need to be tested. She isn't going to transfer 9 more embryos, so embryos will not be transferred regardless of whether she chooses which embryo to transfer or the embryologist does.


Not entirely right: with ART, you pick the embryos that have the best chance of resulting in a baby. Dr chooses that for a medical reason, and in many cases on this board, we are so desperate to have a child we would not risk NOT picking the best embryo. I'm not saying I wouldn't do what OP proposes, but it is different than how decisions are made from a purely ART perspective. OP is introducing vanity into an otherwise medical procedure. And that is a moral slippery slope.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 08:20     Subject: Re:What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
Anonymous wrote:When you have infertility it is always a struggle for others to understand this is a medical condition and not say a lifestyle choice of wanting to have kids in your 50 s (generally speaking of course). We need ART to have children... and many of us from young ages. .. and no amount of what we can do (eating well etc) will change that. There is so much offensive bias against us. So I think we are even more protective of ART being medically guided because it could open a Pandora ' s box If ART is accessible to the non infertile to do things like gender selection. Imagine what would happen in China! I remember reading something where someone did not choose donor egg because it felt too much like the handmaid s tale. Well some people cannot birth children of their own without donor egg so that mentality is very hurtful and we have to fight against it always and ... say hey...I need this medically. So again if donor egg or other ART becomes about vanity we lose something... as it does become handmaids taleish. So while I would not say I would never do what op wants. .. if I had NINE embryos maybe I would., I am uncomfortable with this direction for ART.


8:16 again. If the OP were creating embryos to select sex, then this argument would apply, but her embryos are already sitting out there and just need to be tested. She isn't going to transfer 9 more embryos, so embryos will not be transferred regardless of whether she chooses which embryo to transfer or the embryologist does.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 08:17     Subject: Re:What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
PP again. You can tell by the thread title what it's about, so why click on it? It's similar to the responders giving grief to the posters suffering from secondary infertility.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 08:16     Subject: What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
Anonymous wrote:Pp to be fair to that response, the OP posted this question in an infertility forum. Gender balancing is not an infertility question and I think her question does not belong here.


Not OP, but I hear what you're saying, except the whole question arises out of having embryos created through ART at a local clinic that will need to be thawed, biopsied, tested, and frozen again. The readers in this forum are the ones with the most experience with such procedures and may know their clinic's policies regarding embryo selection, as someone did upthread about the ethics committee at SGFC.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 08:08     Subject: What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
Pp to be fair to that response, the OP posted this question in an infertility forum. Gender balancing is not an infertility question and I think her question does not belong here.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 07:48     Subject: Re:What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
When you have infertility it is always a struggle for others to understand this is a medical condition and not say a lifestyle choice of wanting to have kids in your 50 s (generally speaking of course). We need ART to have children... and many of us from young ages. .. and no amount of what we can do (eating well etc) will change that. There is so much offensive bias against us. So I think we are even more protective of ART being medically guided because it could open a Pandora ' s box If ART is accessible to the non infertile to do things like gender selection. Imagine what would happen in China! I remember reading something where someone did not choose donor egg because it felt too much like the handmaid s tale. Well some people cannot birth children of their own without donor egg so that mentality is very hurtful and we have to fight against it always and ... say hey...I need this medically. So again if donor egg or other ART becomes about vanity we lose something... as it does become handmaids taleish. So while I would not say I would never do what op wants. .. if I had NINE embryos maybe I would., I am uncomfortable with this direction for ART.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 02:14     Subject: Re:What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
I'm so surprised at the responses here. They remind me of some of the responses to ART/IVF in general (unnatural, only God should do that, etc.). In any event, I cycled out of town, so my info won't help you except as an anecdote. My clinic would biopsy and test previously frozen embryos, and, in fact, that is what I did. They didn't do it a lot, though, and I'm not sure I'd trust a clinic less experienced with the testing in general, although you have a good number of embryos to work with. They give you a report that lists the embryos with sex and any abnormal findings/trisomy, from which you can choose which embryo to transfer or allow the embryologist to choose. They're your embryos.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 23:11     Subject: What clinic in the area does gender balancing?
Anonymous wrote:My SG Dr didn't recommend defrosting, biopsying for pgs, and refreezing. I was basically told I couldn't test my two frosties bec. They weren't biopsied before freezing. Not worth the risk of losing them, but since you have 9 you have a better chance of some making it.

My SG doctor did this for my frozen embryos from my first cycle, which we batched with the second. We were initially not planning to do PGS, so they were not biopsied before freeze. It was moot since all the ones from the first cycle were abnormal, but they do seem to do the procedure.