Anonymous wrote:How difficult is the LSAT?

Anonymous wrote:Another thing to consider is that even if his grades qualify him for BigLaw, he will face unspoken ageism in getting hired. Junior associates at big firms are expected to jump when told to jump and do whatever boring scut work is necessary for the case. Firms know that it will be tough for an experienced professional to swallow his pride and start at the bottom of a very rigid hierarchy, and possibly supervised by a 28 year old.

Of course many attorney jobs let new lawyers take on significant responsibility early on, but they don't pay anywhere near as well. So that is the trade-off.

This is why it is imperative your husband know exactly what he wants to do before he applies. Also keep in mind that lower ranked schoolss will afford far less geographic flexibility.

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Anonymous wrote:If the top of the class at ND can land a biglaw job or a good clerkship, why take on the debt?

Bc you may wind up in their bottom or middle not the top.

Law school isn't like undergrad where if you work hard and spend a lot of time writing papers you can do well. There is one exam for each course, that's it, and the class is curved so only a certain small percentage can get a good grade.

This could happen at Harvard too and is, in fact, more likely to happen there because of the stiffness of the competition. Middle of the pack or bottom of the class at Harvard is having a very hard time landing big law nowadays. At least if he was middle or bottom at Notre Dame, he would not have crushing debt to deal with.

I have an extremely hard time believing that any Harvard grad is unable to find a firm law job if they want that. It may not be Cravath, but they will find something in a firm with a starting salary north of $125,000.

PP here. Typos due to autocorrect. I should also add that Elie Mystal has written a lot about his experience as a Harvard Law graduate who landed big law and is still in a terrible financial situation bc he could not stay long enough. OP, if you and your husband fall into the law school trap, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

Stupidity like this is how year after year of students keeps getting into trouble with loans. How is it that people like you still do not realize how much the legal market has changed since 2008? From the Wall Street Journal to the New York Times, numerous publications are doing a great job of spreading the word and yet people refuse to get it. I, personally, know four people who were middle of the pack at Harvard with full debt who are currently living with their parents because they could only find jobs paying ~80k and they have ~250k in debt. Even a 125k job won't put a dent in that kind of debt. When you and that kind of debt, it is big law or bust as far as your financial future goes. It is better not to get into that kind of got in the first place, then to gamble that you'll be one of the very very rare few who will lend that increasingly difficult big law job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the top of the class at ND can land a biglaw job or a good clerkship, why take on the debt?

Bc you may wind up in their bottom or middle not the top.

Law school isn't like undergrad where if you work hard and spend a lot of time writing papers you can do well. There is one exam for each course, that's it, and the class is curved so only a certain small percentage can get a good grade.

This could happen at Harvard too and is, in fact, more likely to happen there because of the stiffness of the competition. Middle of the pack or bottom of the class at Harvard is having a very hard time landing big law nowadays. At least if he was middle or bottom at Notre Dame, he would not have crushing debt to deal with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the top of the class at ND can land a biglaw job or a good clerkship, why take on the debt?

Bc you may wind up in their bottom or middle not the top.

Law school isn't like undergrad where if you work hard and spend a lot of time writing papers you can do well. There is one exam for each course, that's it, and the class is curved so only a certain small percentage can get a good grade.

This could happen at Harvard too and is, in fact, more likely to happen there because of the stiffness of the competition. Middle of the pack or bottom of the class at Harvard is having a very hard time landing big law nowadays. At least if he was middle or bottom at Notre Dame, he would not have crushing debt to deal with.

I have an extremely hard time believing that any Harvard grad is unable to find a firm law job if they want that. It may not be Cravath, but they will find something in a firm with a starting salary north of $125,000.

PP here. Typos due to autocorrect. I should also add that Elie Mystal has written a lot about his experience as a Harvard Law graduate who landed big law and is still in a terrible financial situation bc he could not stay long enough. OP, if you and your husband fall into the law school trap, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

Stupidity like this is how year after year of students keeps getting into trouble with loans. How is it that people like you still do not realize how much the legal market has changed since 2008? From the Wall Street Journal to the New York Times, numerous publications are doing a great job of spreading the word and yet people refuse to get it. I, personally, know four people who were middle of the pack at Harvard with full debt who are currently living with their parents because they could only find jobs paying ~80k and they have ~250k in debt. Even a 125k job won't put a dent in that kind of debt. When you and that kind of debt, it is big law or bust as far as your financial future goes. It is better not to get into that kind of got in the first place, then to gamble that you'll be one of the very very rare few who will lend that increasingly difficult big law job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the top of the class at ND can land a biglaw job or a good clerkship, why take on the debt?

Bc you may wind up in their bottom or middle not the top.

Law school isn't like undergrad where if you work hard and spend a lot of time writing papers you can do well. There is one exam for each course, that's it, and the class is curved so only a certain small percentage can get a good grade.

This could happen at Harvard too and is, in fact, more likely to happen there because of the stiffness of the competition. Middle of the pack or bottom of the class at Harvard is having a very hard time landing big law nowadays. At least if he was middle or bottom at Notre Dame, he would not have crushing debt to deal with.

I have an extremely hard time believing that any Harvard grad is unable to find a firm law job if they want that. It may not be Cravath, but they will find something in a firm with a starting salary north of $125,000.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the top of the class at ND can land a biglaw job or a good clerkship, why take on the debt?

Bc you may wind up in their bottom or middle not the top.

Law school isn't like undergrad where if you work hard and spend a lot of time writing papers you can do well. There is one exam for each course, that's it, and the class is curved so only a certain small percentage can get a good grade.

This could happen at Harvard too and is, in fact, more likely to happen there because of the stiffness of the competition. Middle of the pack or bottom of the class at Harvard is having a very hard time landing big law nowadays. At least if he was middle or bottom at Notre Dame, he would not have crushing debt to deal with.

Anonymous wrote:Yeah OP, you need to think this through. Would you quit your fed job in order to move to Notre Dame? That sounds like a bad idea.

Law school is EXPENSIVE, and law jobs are by and large stressful and time consuming. And the problem is that you don't necessarily have the choice to find a less demanding job. Public interest starter jobs are incredibly demanding and low-paying (eg public defender) OR actually required a high level of prestige (eg ACLU fellowship). Government jobs are highly sought after, and also tend to take the cream of the crop -- or experienced lawyers who have already paid their dues at BIGLAW. As for BIGLAW, just read any of the countless threads here on DCUM about how difficult it is to make BIGLAW work for parents, unless you are prepared for and happy to be the default parent.

I am a lawyer and I actually really enjoy it (mostly) and think it was a good career choice. But I started law school 10 years before kids, so by the time I had a kid I had already worked my way into a (mostly) gratifying and family-friendly position. If you're willing to sacrifice your husband for 10 years, then considering it. Otherwise, it seems like a poorly thought out idea.

As for student loan debt: Even if he gets a seemingly good scholarship for over 50% of tuition and ends up only say $45,000 in debt, you're still looking at a $500+ monthly student loan payment for 10 years. (Hopefully, your DH would not go all the way through law school only to end up on an income-based repayment plan due to financial hardship!)

If he goes full freight to a top-11 school (or whatever the kids are calling it these days) with a total debt of $150,000 then he's talking a payment of $1700 MONTHLY.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the top of the class at ND can land a biglaw job or a good clerkship, why take on the debt?

Bc you may wind up in their bottom or middle not the top.

Law school isn't like undergrad where if you work hard and spend a lot of time writing papers you can do well. There is one exam for each course, that's it, and the class is curved so only a certain small percentage can get a good grade.

Anonymous wrote:If the top of the class at ND can land a biglaw job or a good clerkship, why take on the debt?