W/O wading into the other issues, I think the first date is the key - he suggested dinner and then split the check. I'm not saying that definitely equals cheap, more that he suggested it so it would have been a nice gesture for him to pay.

As a woman, I wouldn't mind paying or going Dutch at all. But good will goes a long way in dating - he suggested dinner and he pays. I would have then said next one's on me.

I don't know if your guy is cheap or what but things are definitely a bit awkward in dealing with him. I would pass.

Anonymous wrote:Ok, now to be "manly" you have to be omnivorous? PP, it's fine not to like picky eating -- in men or in women. But let's not attach it to masculinity and femininity. Are picky eaters more "womanly"?

There's a lot of space between picky and omnivorous. And in general I just think discussing one's picky eating habits is not good first date material. It comes across as high maintenance. I'm an average eater myself with definite dislikes, but I would never let that come up so early. And I can find something to eat on any menu, and will do so to avoid being that annoying picky eater. Just saying. Maybe I'm slightly reverse-sexist, but there you go.

Ok, now to be "manly" you have to be omnivorous? PP, it's fine not to like picky eating -- in men or in women. But let's not attach it to masculinity and femininity. Are picky eaters more "womanly"?

I would add that the fact that he's a picky eater is a red flag for me too! I find it unmanly. And even more so to talk about it on a first date. Seems fussbudget-y/persnickety to me. But that's just IMO and therefore irrelevant. Just feeling chatty and needed to chime in.

Maybe, "old fashioned" means he actually likes the dating "process" vs just meeting to hook up.
An equitable payment arrangement for meals removes any expectations which might arise if he always pays. 50/50 keeps it as simple as possible. Nobody "owes" anybody anything.

Allowing you to choose the restaurant is an acknowledgement and concession on his part because he knows he is more limiting and does not want to unfairly constrain your experiEnce.

Not asking for your phone number is showing respect for your privacy. Since he already has a means to contact you it is not relevant.

Any sparks on your side? If not, move on. Three dates is plenty of time to know.

Anonymous wrote:So are women who don't even offer to pay "cheap"? Equal pay but double standards.

+1

So are women who don't even offer to pay "cheap"? Equal pay but double standards.

I get cheap vibes, which is never a good sign. It's not that it's the man's "job" to pay for dates, but I've never known a good guy yet who doesn't wind up paying for the first few. (The kabuki is, the woman offers to pay, he says "no I've got it" and she says "thank you."). The problem with cheapness on the check is that it tends to spill over in other areas of a guy's behavior. Stingy bastards are stingy bastards, and over time they make their companions miserable.

And as others have pointed out, this isn't the only red flag. He's just wasting time with you - he's not really into you.

OP if he's old-fashioned he should be picking the restaurants, ordering for you and paying the whole bill. Would you prefer that? If not, then what are you complaining about?

You have only been on two dates. You both are in the getting to know each other phase. Why not split the check? Plus, he may have dated others from online meetups and knows that in the early stages, it is better to just go Dutch in case things don't work out. It's polite that he is letting you pick out the locations. There's your old fashioned!

Anonymous wrote:He seems a bit odd to me. The no phone number thing, the comment about the sister's fiance, the mention of being old fashioned, the refusal to pay (to the point where he goes out of his way to correct the bartender) plus the upgrade of the first date with no offer to pay don't sit right with me. They paint a picture of an awkward man, at best.

You don't need a smoking gun to decide not to date someone, just not feeling like it is enough. I'd pass on him.

I agree with this whole post. Some guys are only "old-fashioned" in the ways that suit them best.

Anonymous wrote:The guy is cheap. Call me old-fashioned, but if he's trying to court you, he should be supping for these dinners...

Exactly.

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps next time he refers to himself as old-fashioned, ask him what he means by that. There's nothing wrong with wanting to split the check, but it is odd for someone so insistent on his old-fashionedness. I'd want to know exactly what that encompasses to make sure it isn't something that will be problematic down the road (e.g., he's only old-fashioned when it benefits him, so if you move in together or get married at some point, he'll expect you to manage the household cooking, cleaning, etc., but will still expect you to also work).

My thoughts exactly. Old-fashioned can mean gallant; it can mean conservative; it can mean sexist; it can mean lots of things that you might or might not like.

Also, I would probably skip a third date without a phone number. It seems weird. But maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

Anonymous wrote:The guy is cheap. Call me old-fashioned, but if he's trying to court you, he should be supping for these dinners...

Exactly. Don't pull out your wallet and see what happens. Good luck OP.

He seems a bit odd to me. The no phone number thing, the comment about the sister's fiance, the mention of being old fashioned, the refusal to pay (to the point where he goes out of his way to correct the bartender) plus the upgrade of the first date with no offer to pay don't sit right with me. They paint a picture of an awkward man, at best.

You don't need a smoking gun to decide not to date someone, just not feeling like it is enough. I'd pass on him.