Anonymous wrote:

OP - Though not a fan of Laura Ingram on the radio today when I happened to hear her in the car, she was talking about how disjointed schools seem today to be for little boys like they want to make them behave and learn just like little girls. And noted that girls in general at all levels are soaring today. Boys can't necessarily sit from one period to another of instruction, and outside there is a difference in how boys play and interact with one another. I would always advise another year in preschool for most boys so that they are just a bit more mature and able to "follow the rules" which do seem like they are just made for the little girls - be quite, stay in your place etc.etc. We only had three girls, but after three girls, there were five brothers within seven years. My Mother kept one back because of his immature behavior in the early years and today of the four brothers who are all dentists, he is the most successful. Dentistry actually can be a very good profession for one who likes people and has a bit of ADHD as you are always up and moving from one patient to another. It is a shame that there is not a special emphasis on boys in some programming today. All five of my brothers went to a parochial boys school, which just recently, has decided to go down into the middle school grades, too. It is not in this area.

However, I might add that you may want to consider a parochial school as a possibility which costs, but not nearly as much as private SN schools if there is one in your area that has good reviews. Here in VA where we live actually 1/3 of the students are non-Catholic and the school is top tier, but the learning environment is so much more person focused.

Other people can chime in, but everything I have read is that Catholic schools in particular are a lot worse with helping ADHD kids and SN kids than public schools. I toured a Catholic school, and came out of the tour disturbed by what I saw. I would not send my ADHD child to a Catholic school

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I wouldn't let the school psych anywhere near my kid. They are so unqualified to actually diagnose anything. So often their go-to diagnosis is what they already have programming for. So they tried to shove my learning disabled child into an autism program.

They also like secrecy because they view it as keeping all the power.

I would get my child privately evaluated. You'll learn a lot more.

You are fucking crazy

No, she's not.

I asked our school's team to provide me with the following:

1. What assessments and measures will they use and why?
2. What are the thresholds, rubrics, or standards for scoring the assessments?
3. How do they determine what pattern of results indicates possible or probably identification?
4. Is the intent to "diagnose" or what? Describe the precise purposes of the evaluation, scoring, and evaluation.

F if I couldn't get a straight answer. In fact, the school psych didn't even have a copy of the curriculum standards in hand, nor did she have any sort of rubric for determining if my child was performing far below, below, at, or above any sort of performance standard. I provided her with the information that the "stuff" I was concerned about was, in fact, articulated as specific learning standards across several grade levels, and her response was, "Oh, this is so helpful. Thank you." WTF???

Yeah, so don't assume these folks are fully competent or knowledgeable. We're going private, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation happened a year ago, and his teacher this year hasn't said anything. I requested the meeting last year. On his report card it still says below grade level in math & reading. Effort is all 3's & 4's.

I have a lot to think about. Again, very much appreciate all your helpful responses!

That is reason enough. OP--tell the teacher you want to refer your child for testing. You will be asked to fill out a referral. He's in third grade. Why is below level? Something has got to be getting in the way for him. This isn't about effort--Kids want to learn.

Third grade is when kids read to learn and not learn to read. If he is below grade level, it probably means he's not reading well enough to "read to learn".

Third grade math mostly is about learning the multiplication table. A third grader should be solid in additional and subtraction.

These are foundational skills. If he is below grade level in third, it is only going to get worse.

To give you hope

Our DD was in second grade when the teacher recommended she be tested. She was behind in school. We were confused and not sure what to do. It is overwhelming. The IEP rules are complicated and impossible to decipher. Special Education is a loaded term that hits hard and negative. Surely the teacher was mistaken?

But we cannot thank that teacher enough. Our DD was behind in reading and needed extra help and that FCPS teacher raised the issue. She was assessed and put on IEP at end of second grade. She was on IEP until high school.

DD was behind for most of elementary school. It was not until summer between 5th grade and 6th grade the she really started reading for fun. Until then it was something that she struggled with and as we all know, things that we are not good at we put off. Reading is so fundamental to all the other subjects. An IEP helped immensely. DD got extra help before during and after school. Also, while some criticize the standardized testing, this testing identified our daughter as behind and the FCPS elementary school provided extra tutoring before school to give students extra help.

We did not rely on the school testing. We paid for private testing and you should DEFINITELY do this again. Do not rely on school resources to do this. They will still do an assessment, which I remember also as multiple sessions, and questionaires sent to both parents, and teachers, and doctors. They looked for psych issues, home issues in addition to learning issues. But it was the private testing report that really helped identify learning deficiencies. Cost about $2500 about 10 years ago. We used Dr. Paula Elitov, not sure if she still practices, but she was very good.

I really believe the extra help provided by FCPS made a major difference. IEP forces the school to do periodic meetings with teachers and psychologist and principal to review IEP and progress. The schools definitely respond.

so fast forward to today and I am looking at second quarter high school grades with all A's, AP Calc and AP Gov. DD has caught up and is doing very well. She was "graduated" from IEP program as freshman in high school.

It would not have happened if not for a FCPS second grade elementary teacher who took the time to identify someone that needed help. I


and do not expect a teacher to explain the process to you. It is complicated and legal. they can not be promising something that may not happen. I would expect little help on the process but lots of help with actually helping your child.

OP - Though not a fan of Laura Ingram on the radio today when I happened to hear her in the car, she was talking about how disjointed schools seem today to be for little boys like they want to make them behave and learn just like little girls. And noted that girls in general at all levels are soaring today. Boys can't necessarily sit from one period to another of instruction, and outside there is a difference in how boys play and interact with one another. I would always advise another year in preschool for most boys so that they are just a bit more mature and able to "follow the rules" which do seem like they are just made for the little girls - be quite, stay in your place etc.etc. We only had three girls, but after three girls, there were five brothers within seven years. My Mother kept one back because of his immature behavior in the early years and today of the four brothers who are all dentists, he is the most successful. Dentistry actually can be a very good profession for one who likes people and has a bit of ADHD as you are always up and moving from one patient to another. It is a shame that there is not a special emphasis on boys in some programming today. All five of my brothers went to a parochial boys school, which just recently, has decided to go down into the middle school grades, too. It is not in this area.

However, I might add that you may want to consider a parochial school as a possibility which costs, but not nearly as much as private SN schools if there is one in your area that has good reviews. Here in VA where we live actually 1/3 of the students are non-Catholic and the school is top tier, but the learning environment is so much more person focused.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation happened a year ago, and his teacher this year hasn't said anything. I requested the meeting last year. On his report card it still says below grade level in math & reading. Effort is all 3's & 4's.

I have a lot to think about. Again, very much appreciate all your helpful responses!

That is reason enough. OP--tell the teacher you want to refer your child for testing. You will be asked to fill out a referral. He's in third grade. Why is below level? Something has got to be getting in the way for him. This isn't about effort--Kids want to learn.

Third grade is when kids read to learn and not learn to read. If he is below grade level, it probably means he's not reading well enough to "read to learn".

Third grade math mostly is about learning the multiplication table. A third grader should be solid in additional and subtraction.

These are foundational skills. If he is below grade level in third, it is only going to get worse.

Anonymous wrote:The conversation happened a year ago, and his teacher this year hasn't said anything. I requested the meeting last year. On his report card it still says below grade level in math & reading. Effort is all 3's & 4's.

I have a lot to think about. Again, very much appreciate all your helpful responses!

The teacher hasn't said anything bc the school made you aware that there is a problem. It's up to you whether to let the fact that your 3rd grader is below grade level in math and english slide bc the school will if you let them. The ball is in your court OP.

Anonymous wrote:The conversation happened a year ago, and his teacher this year hasn't said anything. I requested the meeting last year. On his report card it still says below grade level in math & reading. Effort is all 3's & 4's.

I have a lot to think about. Again, very much appreciate all your helpful responses!

That is reason enough. OP--tell the teacher you want to refer your child for testing. You will be asked to fill out a referral. He's in third grade. Why is below level? Something has got to be getting in the way for him. This isn't about effort--Kids want to learn.

Anonymous wrote:The conversation happened a year ago, and his teacher this year hasn't said anything. I requested the meeting last year. On his report card it still says below grade level in math & reading. Effort is all 3's & 4's.

I have a lot to think about. Again, very much appreciate all your helpful responses!

One choice -- if you're able to spend money on it -- is get an independent evaluation. You aren't obligated to share that with the school, but you can see what the problem is (if any) and get a recommended course of action, and then decide whether to involve the school.

The conversation happened a year ago, and his teacher this year hasn't said anything. I requested the meeting last year. On his report card it still says below grade level in math & reading. Effort is all 3's & 4's.

I have a lot to think about. Again, very much appreciate all your helpful responses!

Anonymous wrote:I felt our FCPS elementary was trolling for kids to designate for Special Education to bring up their numbers and hire another Spec Ed position. Sorry Op, I know that's not comforting to hear. If you're hesitant, I wouldn't go down that road.

Let's say that is the case. OP is still in the driver seat and is under no obligation to sign off on anything. If the school is offering comprehensive testing, why wouldn't she agree. The more information I have about my kid, the better, yes?

As for eligibility, she doesn't have to agree or sign off. She controls the process.

I felt our FCPS elementary was trolling for kids to designate for Special Education to bring up their numbers and hire another Spec Ed position. Sorry Op, I know that's not comforting to hear. If you're hesitant, I wouldn't go down that road.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't be afraid of a label if it can help your kid.

I'm not at all afraid of a label if it can help my child, I know this can be a touchy subject, so I was worried this would be misinterpreted when I said it. What I actually said was that I don't want him carrying around a label if it is wrong because it wouldn't be beneficial/appropriate for his education.

I'm absolutely in favor of interventions and extra support if that is what he needs, but I was looking at how they determine eligibility in the FCPS handbook and there were numerous criteria and the child needs to fall into one or more categories to be eligible. For example, autism, or vision impairment, or hearing impaired etc. I didn't see any that said "other" or "undetermined", which implies that the child needs to fall into one of these specific categories to be eligible. I don't want the school to say, "well he can be eligible under this criteria" just to get him intervention. Then they write up an IEP stating that he has this specific learning disability when he doesn't actually have it. He's made progress each grading period, but he's just not at the same level as everyone else in his class, and I'm sure he's ahead of some of his classmates too. There's a wide range out there and not all of it is normal or typical I guess?

Anyways, thanks for your responses everyone, very helpful!

One of the categories is "specific learning disability." If your child is diagnosed with what used to be called dyslexia (trouble reading), dyscalculia (trouble with math), or dysgraphia (trouble writing), that's the category that would be used.

There's also "other health impaired," which is where lots of kids with ADHD fall under.

A child can absolutely have a learning disability and still have considerable academic strengths.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't be afraid of a label if it can help your kid.

I'm not at all afraid of a label if it can help my child, I know this can be a touchy subject, so I was worried this would be misinterpreted when I said it. What I actually said was that I don't want him carrying around a label if it is wrong because it wouldn't be beneficial/appropriate for his education.

I'm absolutely in favor of interventions and extra support if that is what he needs, but I was looking at how they determine eligibility in the FCPS handbook and there were numerous criteria and the child needs to fall into one or more categories to be eligible. For example, autism, or vision impairment, or hearing impaired etc. I didn't see any that said "other" or "undetermined", which implies that the child needs to fall into one of these specific categories to be eligible. I don't want the school to say, "well he can be eligible under this criteria" just to get him intervention. Then they write up an IEP stating that he has this specific learning disability when he doesn't actually have it. He's made progress each grading period, but he's just not at the same level as everyone else in his class, and I'm sure he's ahead of some of his classmates too. There's a wide range out there and not all of it is normal or typical I guess?

Anyways, thanks for your responses everyone, very helpful!

Well, that's more a requirement of the ADA. A child your son's age must meet at least one of the 13 disabilities outlined by the ADA/IDEA in order to qualify for special education or an IEP. So, if he is to get these things, he WILL need a label which means he will be evaluated to see if he meets any of the criteria for one. I'm no doctor but he sounds possibly ADD. That would qualify him. There could be other stuff going on which is why he is evaluated by the different specialists such as psych and speech and occupational therapists and hearing technicians. They are all evaluating him to give their input into what the see to determine what, if any, label best defines him. I understand your apprehension but in my experience it's not a "hey just call him autistic to get him an iep" situation at all. They will take their time and thoroughly evaluate and you can always go private as well if you wish for a second opinion or corroboration.

OP--Go through local screening (the process to determine if testing is warranted.) Clearly the teacher suspects there may be something going on that is holding your child back from reaching his full potential. That "something" may be that he processes information in a different way than school lessons are traditionally taught and that he would benefit from specialized learning programs and/or accommodations.

At the local screening meeting, there will be a special education teacher, the classroom teacher, an administrator, the school psychologist and a social worker. As a team, you will determine what testing is warranted to address his current performance.

The special education teacher would administer an achievement test. It shows exactly where he is performing in reading, writing and math.

The psychologist administers tests to find out how he processes information and what his memory is like. As PP noted above, the questions are somewhat like mini puzzle. The memory tasks may include something like "I'm going to say 7 numbers. Repeat them back to me." Or "Now I'm going to show you 7 numbers and then cover them up. Repeat them back to me." Each of those questions tests something different--his auditory memory and his visual memory.

The social worker meets with you to do a socio-cultural interview to determine if there were any medical or family issues that could impact his learning.

Ask all the questions you want. They're all there to answer them as best they can. (They can't show you the tests) Then at the end, you either consent or don't consent to testing. No one can evaluate your child unless you sign-off on it.

Take it one step at a time. Just because he is evaluated, that does not mean he automatically goes into special education. Once the testing results are back, then you meet with the team again to review them. This is another opportunity to ask questions and make sure you understand everything.

Based on the results of the evaluations, the team will look to see if he is eligible for any special education based on the criteria for each eligibility. Ask questions and make sure you understand what each part of the eligibility means.

AGAIN, you have to sign off on eligibility. No one can provide special education services unless YOU sign-off.

Good luck to you!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't be afraid of a label if it can help your kid.

I'm not at all afraid of a label if it can help my child, I know this can be a touchy subject, so I was worried this would be misinterpreted when I said it. What I actually said was that I don't want him carrying around a label if it is wrong because it wouldn't be beneficial/appropriate for his education.

I'm absolutely in favor of interventions and extra support if that is what he needs, but I was looking at how they determine eligibility in the FCPS handbook and there were numerous criteria and the child needs to fall into one or more categories to be eligible. For example, autism, or vision impairment, or hearing impaired etc. I didn't see any that said "other" or "undetermined", which implies that the child needs to fall into one of these specific categories to be eligible. I don't want the school to say, "well he can be eligible under this criteria" just to get him intervention. Then they write up an IEP stating that he has this specific learning disability when he doesn't actually have it. He's made progress each grading period, but he's just not at the same level as everyone else in his class, and I'm sure he's ahead of some of his classmates too. There's a wide range out there and not all of it is normal or typical I guess?

Anyways, thanks for your responses everyone, very helpful!

If you look at pg 9, the handbook talks about "meeting the criteria for one of the 14" special education categories to qualify for an IEP. As everyone knows, the is an educational label not a diagnosis. They try to fit the child into a category that most closely describes the child's deficits. They are not trying to diagnose your child but provide the supports and services that are needed - this is tailored to the child by the child's IEP team so ultimately the "label" does not matter.