And shooting down passenger planes flying above = zero accountability on Russia's part

Fair, but this could happen by referendum - not shelling.

Um, I am actually Ukrainian (at least that what my Soviet passport says) and partially agree with OP. I agree with:
- parts of Ukraine (as it is now) should actually be Russian (Donbass, i.e. Eastern Ukraine by US recognition and Crimea)
- Baltics are completely different situation. They were never fully part of USSR anyway (always had separate status and much better life) and was never part of empire.
- overall US shouldnt get involved into every conflict going on. We are not even on the same continent or same hemisphere

But judging by this board you should have posted in "unpopular opinions" forum.

Dont believe everything you see on TV people! Trust me, Russian TV spins completely different and also believable looking stories (my GM reports on them daily to me ). The truth is always in the middle... Most of the western Ukraine should actually be separate, speak their own language and quite frankly has completely different cultural values from Eastern Ukraine and Crimea. As for broken state, Russia is not a paradise by loooong shot for anyone but oligarghs, but Ukraine is even worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ukraine declared itself a free and independent county when it broke from the former USSR. By an overwhelming democratic majority. Remember that? Do you know any Ethnic Ukrainians? What do they think of your opinion?

How is that relevant? Does Costa Rica get an equal vote as the USA?

NP. I don't this comparison. Costa Rica has never been related to the US. It was never part of it, nor did it ever elect to be removed from it.

Sorry, that should read "I don't GET this comparison".

Ok, Puerto Rico? Would we let Russia arm nationalists? Would we let China arm native Hawaiian groups?

The CR analogy was saying this is not a situation where everyone gets an equal vote. In war and diplomacy, to a certain extent, might makes right.

You are still comparing apples to oranges here.

Neither HI nor PR ever elected by majority to be removed from the Union. Ukraine did.

Personally, I don't feel the US should get involved. I think Western Europe should be the ones to stop Russia. But, Russia is not right, nor was China right to annex Tibet. I know historically stronger countries took over weaker ones with might, but after two WW, I think the world frowns upon this type of behavior more so now. The UN should also get involved. It is one country invading another sovereign country. If the people of Crimea want to break away, they should hold a referendum. Russia should not be sending in "rebels" to take it by force. Czeckoslovakia, for example, broke apart more peacefully through voting.

If the US invaded and wanted to take Cuba by force, for example, do you think the Russians would allow it?

Puerto Rico is not a sovereign nation recognized by the UN.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ukraine declared itself a free and independent county when it broke from the former USSR. By an overwhelming democratic majority. Remember that? Do you know any Ethnic Ukrainians? What do they think of your opinion?

How is that relevant? Does Costa Rica get an equal vote as the USA?

NP. I don't this comparison. Costa Rica has never been related to the US. It was never part of it, nor did it ever elect to be removed from it.

Sorry, that should read "I don't GET this comparison".

Ok, Puerto Rico? Would we let Russia arm nationalists? Would we let China arm native Hawaiian groups?

The CR analogy was saying this is not a situation where everyone gets an equal vote. In war and diplomacy, to a certain extent, might makes right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ukraine declared itself a free and independent county when it broke from the former USSR. By an overwhelming democratic majority. Remember that? Do you know any Ethnic Ukrainians? What do they think of your opinion?

How is that relevant? Does Costa Rica get an equal vote as the USA?

NP. I don't this comparison. Costa Rica has never been related to the US. It was never part of it, nor did it ever elect to be removed from it.

Sorry, that should read "I don't GET this comparison".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ukraine declared itself a free and independent county when it broke from the former USSR. By an overwhelming democratic majority. Remember that? Do you know any Ethnic Ukrainians? What do they think of your opinion?

How is that relevant? Does Costa Rica get an equal vote as the USA?

NP. I don't this comparison. Costa Rica has never been related to the US. It was never part of it, nor did it ever elect to be removed from it.

Anonymous wrote:Ukraine declared itself a free and independent county when it broke from the former USSR. By an overwhelming democratic majority. Remember that? Do you know any Ethnic Ukrainians? What do they think of your opinion?

How is that relevant? Does Costa Rica get an equal vote as the USA?

Ukraine declared itself a free and independent county when it broke from the former USSR. By an overwhelming democratic majority. Remember that? Do you know any Ethnic Ukrainians? What do they think of your opinion?

Appeasing didn't work out so great. Lets feed then the Baltics, and then what? Sometimes you need to draw a line - and defend it! If that line is called NATO good. At least it would actually stand for something then.

Anonymous wrote:Fortunately, OP, people closer to this situation have a far more sophisticated and nuanced view than do you. This gives you some time to actually read some history, perhaps talk to an actual Ukrainian.

Ukranians who have been tied to Russia for the last 700 years? I have read history, extensively, and I know that Russia has centuries worth of of lessons after being continually invaded from the West - and that Russia has centuries worth of lessons of the cultural ties with the Urkraine. Just like we risked war to get the missiles out of Cuba, they will risk war over the Ukraine. Certainly eastern Ukraine.

And Crimea??? come on. That has been part of Russia a lot longer than Ukraine. That was a silly Soviet era maneuver.

Anonymous wrote:How about our commitment to Ukraine at the time they voluntarily gave up their nuclear arsenal?

Then-senator Obama even travelled there and was photographed gloating over destroyed CONVENTIONAL munitions (like artillery shells) that Ukraine now desperatly needs to fend off the Soviet army (in their unmarked uniforms).

How about our commitment to Ukraine at the time they voluntarily gave up their nuclear arsenal?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Ukranians I know vehemently disagree with you.

Oh well. I'm not risking war over them.

The word for you in world war 2 was "appeaser". Say hi to your buddy chamberlain for me!