Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one area of life that defies most generalizations. Shitty parents are shitty parents whether divorced or together. Kids will be adversely affected by a bad environment whether the parents are married or divorced.

Most people would agree that a healthy two parent household is the best environment for kids. But that isn't always the case and sometimes divorce has to be considered or is the only option.

Parents that can manage a civil divorce and work together to create a parenting plan that keeps the needs of the kids first and foremost will have a better chance at raising healthy kids. The adverse effects of a divorce will be minimized for these kids.

The impact of divorce on children is dependent on so many factors, it is impossible to say whether staying married or divorcing is the right answer for everyone. In reality, we are discussing not just divorce, but the overall impact of bad parenting. Bad parents can be married and living together, living apart or divorced.

Yeah - I left my husband just as the emotional abuse was ramping up. I had to. For my sake and my kids'. We have three kids and he was a shitty dad when we were together (cheerful with them, but zero parenting and zero sense of responsibility and gone a lot). True to form, since I left, he's completely checked out on the kids. Co-parenting? I wish. It's more like a death for them. He never calls, never sends $, sees them maybe once a month when I literally give the kids money so they can do an activity with him. It's heartbreaking. So for all you folks who worry about missing your kids 50% of the time, try helping them navigate a deadbeat dad.

Not to derail the thread, but this is awful. He pays no child support? How does he get away with that?

Anonymous wrote:This is one area of life that defies most generalizations. Shitty parents are shitty parents whether divorced or together. Kids will be adversely affected by a bad environment whether the parents are married or divorced.

Most people would agree that a healthy two parent household is the best environment for kids. But that isn't always the case and sometimes divorce has to be considered or is the only option.

Parents that can manage a civil divorce and work together to create a parenting plan that keeps the needs of the kids first and foremost will have a better chance at raising healthy kids. The adverse effects of a divorce will be minimized for these kids.

The impact of divorce on children is dependent on so many factors, it is impossible to say whether staying married or divorcing is the right answer for everyone. In reality, we are discussing not just divorce, but the overall impact of bad parenting. Bad parents can be married and living together, living apart or divorced.

Yeah - I left my husband just as the emotional abuse was ramping up. I had to. For my sake and my kids'. We have three kids and he was a shitty dad when we were together (cheerful with them, but zero parenting and zero sense of responsibility and gone a lot). True to form, since I left, he's completely checked out on the kids. Co-parenting? I wish. It's more like a death for them. He never calls, never sends $, sees them maybe once a month when I literally give the kids money so they can do an activity with him. It's heartbreaking. So for all you folks who worry about missing your kids 50% of the time, try helping them navigate a deadbeat dad.

Anonymous wrote:Agree that it's not like divorce is a guarantee of happiness. Second marriages often fail, and there are plenty of unhappy divorced people.

Even in the down parts of my marriage, I have always thought the lifestyle changes of divorce would be so unappealing. Putting on a happy face despite being broke and missing my kids, and all the difficulties of co-parenting and future step-parents, seemed harder than putting on a happy face despite my difficult marriage. I didn't stay together "for" the kids so much as "because of" the kids-- because the reality of having kids meant that life after divorce would be pretty difficult for everyone.

They fail at a higher rate than first marriages, in fact.

Agree that it's not like divorce is a guarantee of happiness. Second marriages often fail, and there are plenty of unhappy divorced people.

Even in the down parts of my marriage, I have always thought the lifestyle changes of divorce would be so unappealing. Putting on a happy face despite being broke and missing my kids, and all the difficulties of co-parenting and future step-parents, seemed harder than putting on a happy face despite my difficult marriage. I didn't stay together "for" the kids so much as "because of" the kids-- because the reality of having kids meant that life after divorce would be pretty difficult for everyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought my mother should divorce when I was a teenager. She came close several times. My father worked late and was moody. They didn't seem happy. When my sister and I went to college they became closer and now have the best marriage. I can't image my mother's life if she had divorced.

My parents marriage sucked while we were in the house, probably a bit after too, not sure. Anyway, they appear to be in a better place now.

But, my siblings and I still got screwed up watching a dysfunctional relationship for 18 years.

Yes, but what I got out of it was to make sure that my DH wanted kids and understood what was involved before I married him. If anything I'm sometimes jealous of his attention now not the otherway around.

Anonymous wrote:I thought my mother should divorce when I was a teenager. She came close several times. My father worked late and was moody. They didn't seem happy. When my sister and I went to college they became closer and now have the best marriage. I can't image my mother's life if she had divorced.

My parents marriage sucked while we were in the house, probably a bit after too, not sure. Anyway, they appear to be in a better place now.

But, my siblings and I still got screwed up watching a dysfunctional relationship for 18 years.

I thought my mother should divorce when I was a teenager. She came close several times. My father worked late and was moody. They didn't seem happy. When my sister and I went to college they became closer and now have the best marriage. I can't image my mother's life if she had divorced.

Anonymous wrote:I just wish people wouldn't pretend divorce = happiness. My parents were miserable married, and now they are miserable divorced. It would have been a lot less hassle to stay married.

+1

Divorce screws the kids irreparably. If parents remarry and have more babies, those end up in a pickle as well. That's just the reality of many, many blended families.

Anonymous wrote:This all seems so dependent on individual circumstances.
My marriage is not great, because my husband is a very difficult, moody person. We sort of make it work, but it's not ideal, and there are weeks when he's in a bad mood and we barely speak. If we get divorced, my kids will have to spend 50% of their time with him, without me as a buffer. Currently, when he's being an ass, he can absent himself from our presence and we get along okay without him. When he's in a good mood, he's a great dad. While we're married, I can monitor all this. If we get a divorce, the kids are stuck with him whether he's in a good mood or a bad one. I just can't imagine that this would be better for them.

In this situation, it seems like you guys could essentially live as roommates, because there isn't any hatred going on, and you didn't make mention of you being miserable and unhappy. And 50% of the time, it's good. I think that is different than spouses who cannot stand to be in the same room with each other and there is an underlying hostility in the house.

Neighbors of mine needed to get a divorce. They didn't want to separate while the kids were young. They chose to live separately within their house. You wouldn't really notice it, because they had the appearance of a happy life. But, if you ever really paid attention, they NEVER spoke to each other. At kids stuff, at school, sport games, gatherings, parties, etc. They came together, left together, but the middle part, opposite ends of the room, never exchanging a word until it was time to go. It made me wonder how much the kids understood what was going on and what kind of impact that would have on them?

I only happened upon this information after there was an incident involving too much drinking, frustration, and an argument between the 2 where TMI was shared. But after that, whenever I've been in group situations like that, it's interesting to watch how married couples interact. Or don't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cue all the posters who claim that kids growing up in a hostile environment with unhappy parents modeling unhealthy relationship patterns is better for the kids...because they're together.

Cue all the retards smugly saying "the kids will adjust, so I can go ahead and do whatever I want to do, go me".

I've never heard that before. Are you referring to people saying kids are resilient? No one has ever claimed that divorce is easy on kids. Just that it's better for kids to see their parents happy and not be in a toxic environment.

Conversely, it has been continuously argued by anti-divorce posters that a bad home life is preferable to parents getting divorced. And then suggest that the parents "just get along". I mean, if the parents could just get along, they probably wouldn't be having marital problems or thinking about divorce in the first place.

Anonymous wrote:This all seems so dependent on individual circumstances.
My marriage is not great, because my husband is a very difficult, moody person. We sort of make it work, but it's not ideal, and there are weeks when he's in a bad mood and we barely speak. If we get divorced, my kids will have to spend 50% of their time with him, without me as a buffer. Currently, when he's being an ass, he can absent himself from our presence and we get along okay without him. When he's in a good mood, he's a great dad. While we're married, I can monitor all this. If we get a divorce, the kids are stuck with him whether he's in a good mood or a bad one. I just can't imagine that this would be better for them.

You sound like a control freak.

And if he is a good dad when in a good mood, how do you know that if you were to divorce he wouldn't be happy all the time? Maybe your marriage is making him miserable.

This all seems so dependent on individual circumstances.
My marriage is not great, because my husband is a very difficult, moody person. We sort of make it work, but it's not ideal, and there are weeks when he's in a bad mood and we barely speak. If we get divorced, my kids will have to spend 50% of their time with him, without me as a buffer. Currently, when he's being an ass, he can absent himself from our presence and we get along okay without him. When he's in a good mood, he's a great dad. While we're married, I can monitor all this. If we get a divorce, the kids are stuck with him whether he's in a good mood or a bad one. I just can't imagine that this would be better for them.

On the other hand, I can't think of a single reason better to do anything than for the kids. If your marriage is simply lackluster and takes work, do it. Your kids don't care about you following your bliss. If you can't do the work or work would not help, then by all means, divorce. But know that barring abuse, mental or physical or addiction or infidelity, it is a sub optimal choice.

I've known several people who knew their parents didn't have a true/good marriage their entire childhood. The parents divorced once the kids were grown. They wished they had divorced earlier and been happy. These were not necessarily homes where they were arguing all the time, just obviously not happy together.

I spent a lot of time at my best friend's house in middle school and high school. Her parents didn't argue much, but it was crystal clear they were not a happy couple. It was so sad. They were not happy. As soon as she went to college they got a divorce. She completely expected it and wished they'd done it sooner. Since then they really got their own happy lives and loves. She still feels guilt for being the reason they were miserable staying together just for her. She knows it was their decision, but hard not to feel guilt about it anyway.

Anonymous wrote:Cue all the posters who claim that kids growing up in a hostile environment with unhappy parents modeling unhealthy relationship patterns is better for the kids...because they're together.

Cue all the retards smugly saying "the kids will adjust, so I can go ahead and do whatever I want to do, go me".