Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread title reminds me of those evangelical megachurches that tell women that they have to stay with abusive men.


http://www.alternet.org/story/124174/biblical_battered_wife_syndrome%3A_christian_women_and_domestic_violence

I agree, I am OP, and my family is evangelical Southern Baptists. They disowned me for divorcing my abusive husband. My brother told me that in God's eyes, I was still married to him as there is no such thing as divorce, so I am committing adultry every day I am with my current husband.

It's a shame and a travesty that some fundamentalist Christian religions are like this. Luckily, many Christian denominations are much more progressive. They simply interpret the bible to suit the changing times and their changing ideas. Many of the more liberal Protestant denominations (e.g. Episcopal, United Church of Christ) support women clergy, gay marriage, abortion, etc, just like non-religious people do. They don't see it as going against Christianity, but rather adapting their understanding for modern times.

Even many Church-going Catholics ignore their churches teaching on homosexuality and birth control, keeping the parts of their religion that they like, and disregarding the rest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I just don't understand how anyone can take religion this seriously. It's not just Islam, there are radicals in other religions also, including members of my family who won't let their females wear pants, work, etc. It just seems crazy to me. Figures, in the video, he talkes about wives getting fat and ugly.



http://www.thelocal.de/20150203/berlin-imam-says-women-cant-refuse-sex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQvtJihSVwk

“A woman must turn her home into a flourishing garden for her husband, so that he does not flee from her like a leper or a lion,” Sheik Abdel Moez al-Eila told the congregation at the Al-Nur mosque.

The sermon was delivered on January 23rd, but has only just come under broad public scrutiny after a video of the address surfaced on Sunday.

The imam went on to say that women should restrict themselves to taking care of their home, children and husband, and that only an overly ”lenient” husband would allow his wife to work - “a big problem in the society in which we live [in Germany]”.

But al-Eila's most archaic comments come at the end of the sermon, when he says that “a woman is not allowed to refuse to sleep with her husband.

“She is not allowed to make excuses or use pretexts.”

PP, you really need to research before you publish things like this. They perpetuate false information about Islam. In light of the Chapel Hill Muslim murders, it's irresponsible.

No where in the Quran does it every say women must be confined to homes. They may work. They may choose to stay home and care for children. It is clear that Islam puts a lot of importance on the family unit and importance on child rearing. But women are not mandated to stay at home. Many Muslim women work. In other Muslim countries, however, these rules, if they exist, are imposed because of culture.

It does actually, but the admonition is limited to the wives of Muhammad. Our bearded friends, though, have extrapolated it to all women, despite very clear instructions in the Quran that Muhammad was allowed things no one else was, and his wives were issued a set of instructions other women were not.

"O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech.

And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification."

http://quran.com/33

Anonymous wrote:
I just don't understand how anyone can take religion this seriously. It's not just Islam, there are radicals in other religions also, including members of my family who won't let their females wear pants, work, etc. It just seems crazy to me. Figures, in the video, he talkes about wives getting fat and ugly.



http://www.thelocal.de/20150203/berlin-imam-says-women-cant-refuse-sex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQvtJihSVwk

“A woman must turn her home into a flourishing garden for her husband, so that he does not flee from her like a leper or a lion,” Sheik Abdel Moez al-Eila told the congregation at the Al-Nur mosque.

The sermon was delivered on January 23rd, but has only just come under broad public scrutiny after a video of the address surfaced on Sunday.

The imam went on to say that women should restrict themselves to taking care of their home, children and husband, and that only an overly ”lenient” husband would allow his wife to work - “a big problem in the society in which we live [in Germany]”.

But al-Eila's most archaic comments come at the end of the sermon, when he says that “a woman is not allowed to refuse to sleep with her husband.

“She is not allowed to make excuses or use pretexts.”

PP, you really need to research before you publish things like this. They perpetuate false information about Islam. In light of the Chapel Hill Muslim murders, it's irresponsible.

No where in the Quran does it every say women must be confined to homes. They may work. They may choose to stay home and care for children. It is clear that Islam puts a lot of importance on the family unit and importance on child rearing. But women are not mandated to stay at home. Many Muslim women work. In other Muslim countries, however, these rules, if they exist, are imposed because of culture.

the other extreme is people appointing themselves little advocates and telling others how to live.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW a man isn't allowed to refuse to sleep with his wife in Islam either. Not that a religion should dictate that anyway.

Not according to this fatwa

http://islamqa.info/en/5971

We hear the hadeeth that if a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, then the angels curse her until morning. The question is, what if the wife calls the husband to bed and he refuses?
Praise be to Allaah.

It is not permissible for a man to forsake his wife and thus harm her, except in the case of nushooz (rebellion) and disobedience. But he is not committing a sin if he does not lie with her without intending to harm her, because the need is his and depends on his desire and he cannot control his desire at will. If he forsakes her, then he is a sinner because there should be no harming or reciprocating harm. And Allaah knows best.

You know that site is Salafi, right? Salafi is made up Islam. Check what any of the four Sunni madhabs have to say, or Shia of you prefer.

The Qur'an says many things about marriage, including that women shall have rights similar to the rights against them. That they are garments for their husbands, as their husbands are garments for them. According to a reliable Hadith (because not all are), the Prophet Mohamed advised a man who was spending all night and all day in prayer or fasting (ostensibly a great thing) that he had obligations other than prayer: "your body has a right over you, your eyes have a right over you, your wife has a right over you." Muslims cannot have sex while fasting or praying, so this man's constant fasting and prayer was denying his wife's right over him, in this regard.

Marriage is "half the religion" in Islam. It's extremely important and the religion strongly supports spouses and the larger family unit living in a mutually beneficial way, in peace and tranquility. In a religion where extra-marital sex is entirely forbidden, marriage is seen as the very natural vehicle for sexual gratification of both people.

It's completely pathetic.

These are men who feel unsecure and powerless in their own life who attempt to address their situation by controlling their wives and female children. And the first thing these pathetic people do when they gain political control is to pass laws restraining women--making them veil, confining them to their homes, and lowering the female age of marriage to 11.

Anonymous wrote:This thread title reminds me of those evangelical megachurches that tell women that they have to stay with abusive men.


http://www.alternet.org/story/124174/biblical_battered_wife_syndrome%3A_christian_women_and_domestic_violence

I agree, I am OP, and my family is evangelical Southern Baptists. They disowned me for divorcing my abusive husband. My brother told me that in God's eyes, I was still married to him as there is no such thing as divorce, so I am committing adultry every day I am with my current husband.

This thread title reminds me of those evangelical megachurches that tell women that they have to stay with abusive men.


http://www.alternet.org/story/124174/biblical_battered_wife_syndrome%3A_christian_women_and_domestic_violence

Anonymous wrote:It would make things easier for everyone

Sure, when you deny the humanity of all women, you do simplify relationships from complicated connections between equals to an owner-pet kind of relationship. Or owner-livestock relationship. Which do you prefer?

http://islamqa.info/en/33597

33597: Husband forcing his wife to have intercourse
Is it permissible for a man to force his wife or slave to have intercourse if she refuses?.
Praise be to Allaah.
The woman does not have the right to refuse her husband, rather she must respond to his request every time he calls her, so long as that will not harm her or keep her from doing an obligatory duty.

Al-Bukhaari (3237) and Muslim (1436) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, and he spends the night angry with her, the angels curse her until morning.”

If she refuses with no excuse, she is disobeying and is being defiant (nushooz), and he is no longer obliged to spend on her and clothe her.

The husband should admonish her and remind her of the punishment of Allaah, and forsake her in her bed. He also has the right to hit her, in a manner that does not cause injury. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great”

[al-Nisa’ 4:34]

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked what a husband should do if his wife refuses him when he asks for intimacy.

He replied:

It is not permissible for her to rebel against him or to withhold herself from him, rather if she refuses him and persists in doing so, he may hit her in a manner that does not cause injury, and she is not entitled to spending or a share of his time [in the case of plural marriage].” Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 32/279.

And he was asked about a man who has a wife who is rebellious and refuses intimacy – does she forfeit the right to maintenance and clothing, and what should she do?

He replied:

She forfeits her right to maintenance and clothing if she does not let him be intimate with her. He has the right to hit her if she persists in being defiant. It is not permissible for her to refuse intimacy if he asks for that, rather she is disobeying Allaah and His Messenger (by refusing). In al-Saheeh it says: “If a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, the One Who is in heaven will be angry with her until morning comes.”

From Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 32/278. The hadeeth was narrated by Muslim, 1736.

So the wife should be admonished first, and warned against defiance (nushooz) and of the anger of Allaah and the curse of the angels. If she does not respond, then the husband should forsake her in her bed, and if she does not respond to that, then he may hit her in a manner that does not cause injury. If none of these steps are effective, then he may stop spending on her maintenance and clothing, and he has the right to divorce her or to allow her to separate from him by khula’ in return for some financial settlement, such as giving up the mahr.

Similarly a slave woman does not have the right to refuse her master’s requests unless she has a valid excuse. If she does that she is being disobedient and he has the right to discipline her in whatever manner he thinks is appropriate and is allowed in sharee’ah.

And Allaah knows best.

Anonymous wrote:FWIW a man isn't allowed to refuse to sleep with his wife in Islam either. Not that a religion should dictate that anyway.

Not according to this fatwa

http://islamqa.info/en/5971

We hear the hadeeth that if a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, then the angels curse her until morning. The question is, what if the wife calls the husband to bed and he refuses?
Praise be to Allaah.

It is not permissible for a man to forsake his wife and thus harm her, except in the case of nushooz (rebellion) and disobedience. But he is not committing a sin if he does not lie with her without intending to harm her, because the need is his and depends on his desire and he cannot control his desire at will. If he forsakes her, then he is a sinner because there should be no harming or reciprocating harm. And Allaah knows best.