Anonymous wrote:

These are capstone tests; final exams. If you don't know the material, you SHOULD be penalized.

So, you expect the students who do not pass to be held back in the grade? What are your plans for their future?

I suspect that's a highly individualist question that depends on a variety of circumstances than more than just the test.

At the higher levels, I guess it's the difference between graduating with a diploma and just getting a certificate of attendance.

As it should be.

It's not like there is widespread failure or anything.

But it's going to improve their understanding of math in the long run.

Just because you did it differently as a child doesn't mean that was the right way. Far from it.

And, you know this, how?

These are capstone tests; final exams. If you don't know the material, you SHOULD be penalized.

So, you expect the students who do not pass to be held back in the grade? What are your plans for their future?

Anonymous wrote:This question requires language and hand grading of the tests, complete with rubrics. Like that won't get royally screwed up!

All the "Explain how you know" crap is going to kill the math scores of a lot of students.

http://www.parcconline.org/sites/parcc/files/Grade4-FractionComparison.pdf

But it's going to improve their understanding of math in the long run.

Just because you did it differently as a child doesn't mean that was the right way. Far from it.

Anonymous wrote:

This is an OK 4th grade question -- but many kids will struggle with it because it's presented as a word problem and not a straight equation. I would bet that not more than half of the kids get it right.

The problem with these tests is that they are not diagnostic, they are only punitive. They don't tell the teachers, kids or parents where EXACTLY the child is weak.

Unlike tests I took 40 years ago, which pinpointed weaknesses so the tests could actually be helpful and informative.

These are capstone tests; final exams. If you don't know the material, you SHOULD be penalized.

Anonymous wrote:19:28,

That's an interesting statement considering that Common Core developers are not releasing the data and study results from the development of the standards.

That doesn't really interest me. Who cares? They are what they are, they make perfect sense, and the evidence such as these questions seems perfectly appropriate. I have a fourth grader, and she's definitely studying rays and end points and angles (question 1). In fact the entire tests seems completely in keeping with the work I've seen my fourth grader do this year -- and we are in Virginia, which is not a Common Core state (unfortunately).

I find the obsession with "not releasing the data and study results" to be a straw man. It's as if you mean to imply there's something nefarious about that secrecy. Which is just weird and makes you sound paranoid.

I certainly remember the word problems that we had. The books were full of them and our teachers expected us to understand them. This was in a normal public school. Sorry yours didn't do that.

Tests we took ages ago didn't test for critical thinking, only how good your rote memory was.

That's not necessarily true. My teachers taught critical thinking. Didn't yours?

Anonymous wrote:

This is an OK 4th grade question -- but many kids will struggle with it because it's presented as a word problem and not a straight equation. I would bet that not more than half of the kids get it right.

The problem with these tests is that they are not diagnostic, they are only punitive. They don't tell the teachers, kids or parents where EXACTLY the child is weak.

Unlike tests I took 40 years ago, which pinpointed weaknesses so the tests could actually be helpful and informative.

Tests we took ages ago didn't test for critical thinking, only how good your rote memory was.

Word problems are better for testing critical thinking skills. But I agree, many kids, and adults, are bad at word problems because the math problem is not laid out neatly. That shows people are weak at understanding how math principles are applied.

Anonymous wrote:This testing is different. Kids are supposed to learn "standards" across the U.S. and this test sees what they learned each year.

By that measure Common Core is already a massive failure. Everywhere kids have been tested after one or more years of learning the standards, MOST FAIL THE TESTS.

Also note that the above requires grade appropriate, precise language. So if you are weak in language but great in numbers, you are now a failure at math, too.

This testing is different. Kids are supposed to learn "standards" across the U.S. and this test sees what they learned each year.

This question requires language and hand grading of the tests, complete with rubrics. Like that won't get royally screwed up!

All the "Explain how you know" crap is going to kill the math scores of a lot of students.




http://www.parcconline.org/sites/parcc/files/Grade4-FractionComparison.pdf

How about this change it up. An individual student can compare themselves to students in MCPS, DC, and Iowa starting in 3rd grade and annually ...don't have to be surprised in high school at the SAT.

Don't need Common Core for that. Ever heard of the Stanford? Iowa Test of Basic Skills?

Anonymous wrote:How about this change it up. An individual student can compare themselves to students in MCPS, DC, and Iowa starting in 3rd grade and annually ...don't have to be surprised in high school at the SAT.

I'm 55 years old. I wasn't remotely surprised at the SAT. There has always been standardized testing. The thing is, it's now being used to try and whip kids and teachers into shape. Before they were a snapshot of where you were.