Anonymous wrote:
The noblest options are celibacy, friendships, or open marriage depending on your libido, combined with pursuing happiness through hobbies, trying to be civil, forgiving, and understanding, and change your attitude, focus on other forms of love.

few people could (long term) be both celibate and happy

I wonder the same thing, how to endure a loveless marriage. I try to love my spouse, warts and all, but it's really hard to get nothing in return, and it drains my energy and puts a damper on my potential for a happy life. I've brainstormed what are the options:
1. divorce-sucks for the kids, costs money, and there's no guarantee you'll have it any easier
2. celibacy or taking care of your own needs-not terribly exciting, not everyone would be happy with that
3. affairs-how can you live with yourself if you have the affair (see option 4 instead), if you find out spouse is having one, see option 1.
4. open marriage-how do you pull that off with kids, and would you get jealous of spouse hooking up?
5. pursue other forms of happiness-hobbies, friendships, travel, volunteering, spirituality, etc.
6. wait for spouse to die a natural death, and then find new spouse if there is time-might have to wait a long time, only to be too old to find a new spouse, would feel heartless if you chose this option, kids would be upset
7. rekindling feelings for spouse-how to make that happen? bungie jumping together? maybe rekindling isn't possible
8. agree to be civil, try to have greater understanding for spouse as a fellow human being and parent of your kids
9. change your attitude-expecting life long love from your spouse might be unrealistic after the love hormones wear off, look on the bright side of what works in your marriage
10. focus on other forms of love-your kids, pets, family, friends, spirituality, volunteering, other partners if you choose open marriage

The noblest options are celibacy, friendships, or open marriage depending on your libido, combined with pursuing happiness through hobbies, trying to be civil, forgiving, and understanding, and change your attitude, focus on other forms of love.

I can always spot a person who has been in a loveless marriage for a while and thinks there is no way out.

They are dead inside, I can see it in their eyes.

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP - It would be nearly impossible for my spouse to be having an affair. We work at the same place and know where each other is at every minute of the day and what the other is doing because of the nature of our jobs. My spouse could be having a random hook-up here and there on work travel, but not a sustained affair without my knowing about it. I don't have any suspicion that's happened. Spouse is a pretty traditional person, so I'm not sure even would be interested in open marriage and I'm certainly not.

When I have asked spouse what we should do, spouse seems to be on the same page as me -- knows our relationship is not great, but not so horrible that we should break up our family.

I've been doing the fake it until hopefully something comes back thing, and plan to keep it up. But if anyone has been here and made it work, I'd love to get advice.

I'm not saying your spouse is having an affair, but I just want to point out that even in the work situation you describe it is possible. Probably not an emotional love affair, but sex can happen anytime. Affairs often happen at lunchtime, for instance. Again, I don't mean to worry you, I just wanted to point this out.

Anonymous wrote:Look, absent physical abuse or lots of parent-on-parent anger and yelling, no-one is truly getting a divorce because it's good for the kids -- that's just a lie they tell to make themselves feel better about the choice. A single parent with too little money to go around isn't modeling for their kids what a relationship looks like either.

If you want a divorce, get one. But admit that it's for you, not for your kids.

Are you kidding me? If you think that you can separate parenting children from enduring in an ongoing, emotionally vacant marriage and not have the marriage have an effect on your children, you are deluding yourself.

Look, absent physical abuse or lots of parent-on-parent anger and yelling, no-one is truly getting a divorce because it's good for the kids -- that's just a lie they tell to make themselves feel better about the choice. A single parent with too little money to go around isn't modeling for their kids what a relationship looks like either.

If you want a divorce, get one. But admit that it's for you, not for your kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with PP. Love does not exist between people, it is in person's heart. And it doesn't stay the same over the years. If you've been married for a while, you will know that the feelings 10 years later are not the same, but it is still love. And it is only get better and stronger. I read somewhere that it goes in 5 years cycles. Maybe OP just in that time when everything got changed and she is not adapting. I would give yourself some time. Don't get irritated with husband's behaviour, just observe it. Staying in marriage without love is not beneficial for kids. They see it, they feel it and they learn from your relationship. You may end up raising kids with a wrong understanding of man-woman relations and it will affect their lives and ability to love tremendosely.

See if you have any love in your heart at all. Not toward your husband, but general love: to love yourself, to love the sky, new day. Try to develop that feeling. Love is the light. And it is contagious. You will be surprise to see how it changes the most grumpy guy. Don't hold any expectations for his changes though.

To bail out and to divorce is the easy escape. To try to work out and learn your own heart is harder. From what OP wrote, I don't think that the open marriage will work for you.

OP, you wrote that your views changed. Can you tell how exactly they changed? All people grow up and change several times their life's perspectives and even religions.

Love is a two.way street. Anything else is dillusion.

As someone married 17 years who is lucky to even feel more in love with my DH than the day we met, I disagree with your bleak summary of a miserable marriage cloaked in the mere idea of love.

Divorce is not easy. It is the hard parh. Staying miserable is what is easy. Change is hard. Someone who actually loves themselves and who believes in love would never stay in this miserable marriage. As someone who is in a passionate loving marriage, I believe everyone should have the chance to experience what I have found.

I couldn't agree more. Divorce is hard. I'm doing it, and it is devastating. But living a lie in a loveless marriage is much more damaging to yourself and your kids. Do you think your kids don't notice how miserable you are? And how absent their dad is? You say he's a great dad? To me, part of being a great (married) dad is treating his wife and mother of his children well. You are modeling for your kids what a relationship looks like. Sure, you can fake it and find happiness with your friends etc., but would you want your daughter to have this kind of marriage? Would you want your son treating his wife this way? Because that's what you are setting them up for.

Dillusion

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with PP. Love does not exist between people, it is in person's heart. And it doesn't stay the same over the years. If you've been married for a while, you will know that the feelings 10 years later are not the same, but it is still love. And it is only get better and stronger. I read somewhere that it goes in 5 years cycles. Maybe OP just in that time when everything got changed and she is not adapting. I would give yourself some time. Don't get irritated with husband's behaviour, just observe it. Staying in marriage without love is not beneficial for kids. They see it, they feel it and they learn from your relationship. You may end up raising kids with a wrong understanding of man-woman relations and it will affect their lives and ability to love tremendosely.

See if you have any love in your heart at all. Not toward your husband, but general love: to love yourself, to love the sky, new day. Try to develop that feeling. Love is the light. And it is contagious. You will be surprise to see how it changes the most grumpy guy. Don't hold any expectations for his changes though.

To bail out and to divorce is the easy escape. To try to work out and learn your own heart is harder. From what OP wrote, I don't think that the open marriage will work for you.

OP, you wrote that your views changed. Can you tell how exactly they changed? All people grow up and change several times their life's perspectives and even religions.

Love is a two.way street. Anything else is dillusion.

As someone married 17 years who is lucky to even feel more in love with my DH than the day we met, I disagree with your bleak summary of a miserable marriage cloaked in the mere idea of love.

Divorce is not easy. It is the hard parh. Staying miserable is what is easy. Change is hard. Someone who actually loves themselves and who believes in love would never stay in this miserable marriage. As someone who is in a passionate loving marriage, I believe everyone should have the chance to experience what I have found.

I disagree with PP. Love does not exist between people, it is in person's heart. And it doesn't stay the same over the years. If you've been married for a while, you will know that the feelings 10 years later are not the same, but it is still love. And it is only get better and stronger. I read somewhere that it goes in 5 years cycles. Maybe OP just in that time when everything got changed and she is not adapting. I would give yourself some time. Don't get irritated with husband's behaviour, just observe it. Staying in marriage without love is not beneficial for kids. They see it, they feel it and they learn from your relationship. You may end up raising kids with a wrong understanding of man-woman relations and it will affect their lives and ability to love tremendosely.

See if you have any love in your heart at all. Not toward your husband, but general love: to love yourself, to love the sky, new day. Try to develop that feeling. Love is the light. And it is contagious. You will be surprise to see how it changes the most grumpy guy. Don't hold any expectations for his changes though.

To bail out and to divorce is the easy escape. To try to work out and learn your own heart is harder. From what OP wrote, I don't think that the open marriage will work for you.

OP, you wrote that your views changed. Can you tell how exactly they changed? All people grow up and change several times their life's perspectives and even religions.

In all honesty OP, your marriage is dead. Completely dead.

There is no hope left to revive it. You have done everything humanely possible to salvage what you have with your husband and it looks to me like he has put in zero effort. This speaks volumes. Like you admitted, there seems to be no love lost between you two. Deep inside your hearts, you both have moved on from each other. Your marriage is simply an act.

Since you are not even at the point of considering a divorce, then there is nothing I can advise you to do at this point.

All I can say for sure is that you will continue to live each day feeling sad, miserable and feeling like you are missing out on living your life to the fullest degree.

Understand that life is to be enjoyed....To be celebrated. That is the purpose of life OP. Not to be endured.

Food for thought.....

OP have you seen or considered seeing a therapist on your own, not just couples therapy? You mentioned that you and DH have been through a lot in the last few years. Maybe it would help you to get re-centered and think about what you want and need going forward.

You sound like a really good mom.

I think you have to think about what happiness looks like to you and make it happen. You only have one life. I think a life partnership with a man who is a good companion and friend could be a great thing and I think that would be enough for a lot of people, but if it isn't enough for you, then you should make a change.

I once heard an interview with someone from one of those horrible places with grinding poverty and endless war. They said something like they don't think of "happy" as a state of being, but rather as a feeling. So even though your life is total shit, you can still feel happy about a beautiful day, or a child's smile. This is obviously an extreme example, but I think, on some level, it helps to just forget the big question "Am I happy with my life?" and focus on wringing whatever joy you can out of whatever moments you can.
FWIW, I'm in a similar situation to you. Sometimes the loneliness just washes over me like a wave, but I try not to give in to it.

Anonymous wrote:OP- find a good group of girlfriends: spend your free time with them, share your secrets with them.

Buy a good vibrator. Order is online if you don't want go to a store. Buy a detachable shower head.

Read good books

Drink good wine

Love to you.

Become a drunk
Typical outcome.

Anonymous wrote:Well I don't know what to tell you because I would go with the frienshhip marriage arrangement and open to other relationships to get that fulfillment else where. Your options are as such:

-divorce and blow up your children's world and security
-live in misery
-be honest and stay together and get a boyfriend/girlfriend to.round out the inbalance.

Or learn to get along. You fell in love once and got married. You have to forgive any wrongsoings and move on. Decide to live a happy life together. Appreciate what you have and the good qualtiws in your spouse.