Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 22:43     Subject: Re:Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Muslima habibtee- I would love your opinion on just one matter. I promise not to go back and forth with you on this thread as that can get overly tedious.

I recently read an article talking about the number of beheadings that take place in Saudi Arabia. I think there are about 79 or 80 that take place every year. The beheader prays for the imprisoned prior to the execution. Tell me, is Saudi Arabia's use of beheadings as a form of execution Islamic?


Sexist and condescending.


No it isn't -- loser.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 22:43     Subject: Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Muslima wrote: I truly believe that what is happening across the Levant is political... I think any solution to this can not ignore the context of this violence: there are political and social causes that allow radical voices to be heard and acted upon, and this has nothing to do with the core values or practices of Muslims as a whole. We need to present a different ideology to the marginalized who fall for the radical rhetoric, and that starts with a conversation, but any attempt to modify the core values of the religion itself will fail.


Thank you Muslima. I only disagree with one thing -- we cannot extricate religion and politics in Iraq. Here in the US, that separation is much more distinct, but not in Iraq. That is my point -- Islam and politics are so intertwined, to say an event is only caused by politics and not religion is not accurate at all.

I agree with you -- "we need to present a different ideology to the marginalized who fall for the radical rhetoric, and that starts with a conversation." Well said. A conversation about what? An ideology about what? The disenfrachised Maslawis didn't commit to nonviolence to seek political gains. They welcomed a violent group of Sunnis who promised power and control. To them it was a win- (political) -win (religious) situation. Religion is absolutely and unquestionably a driver in what occurred on June 10th.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 22:42     Subject: Re:Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Anonymous wrote:Muslima habibtee- I would love your opinion on just one matter. I promise not to go back and forth with you on this thread as that can get overly tedious.

I recently read an article talking about the number of beheadings that take place in Saudi Arabia. I think there are about 79 or 80 that take place every year. The beheader prays for the imprisoned prior to the execution. Tell me, is Saudi Arabia's use of beheadings as a form of execution Islamic?


Sexist and condescending.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 22:37     Subject: Re:Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Muslima habibtee -- I would love your opinion on just one matter. I promise not to go back and forth with you on this thread as that can get overly tedious.

I recently read an article talking about the number of beheadings that take place in Saudi Arabia. I think there are about 79 or 80 that take place every year. The beheader prays for the imprisoned prior to the execution. Tell me, is Saudi Arabia's use of beheadings as a form of execution Islamic?
Muslima
Post 01/11/2015 22:37     Subject: Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Muslima wrote:

This is the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. You have got to be kidding! You want 1.6 Billion people to pray a certain way and change their entire lifestyle because of a few lunatics? As far as what should be recited in prayers, just so you know, the Qur'an has 114 surahs (chapters) and 113 of them start with " In the name of God, the most Merciful, the most beneficent" and every single prayer ends with "May the peace and the Mercy of Allah be upon you". Having every single donation by Muslims being investigated? Com'on! And as far as making Hajj just for Muslims, well only Muslims can perform Hajj. And there is no way, any other requirement can be attached to Hajj as far as being a militant or to agree to any ideology/Philosophy, the only requirement is to be a Muslim, changing that would be contrary to the religion, unIslamic and not going to happen. While we are at it, how about we make guns illegal in every single state, since every single day, some lunatic can buy one and murder innocent civilians?


Muslima, I've read your previous posts and I admire your commitment to defend your faith. I simply think that the daily practices of Muslims should include more prayers about nonviolence. Why then did neighbors in Mosul turn on their Christian bretheren? Why did they take their homes, jewelry, and property? Because those Muslims are evil? No, they were not all evil. Because they were opportunists? No, not that either. Because they were afraid of ISIS? Yes, fear is a part of it all -- but at the end of the day, they turned on Christians because they are Christian, and they are akafir. The violence was justified to expand Sunni power, which necessarily meant crushing Yezidis and other minorities. Ensuring the survival of Sunni Islam meant the physical and political elimination of their enemies. If enough Muslims said this is NOT islam, we are NOT going to do your bidding, then perhaps IS would have stopped in its tracks. Don't forget that IS was initially welcomed by the Maslawis.

Please do not discount what is happening in Iraq and Syria (as the example I'm using in this thread) as simply the collective acts of loonies and crazies. They've got historical precedent and they are trying to restore the religious and political sovereignty of Sunni Islam across the Levant.


I am not discounting what is happening in Iraq or Syria, I just don't think it is religious nor do I think adding prayers about nonviolence would make a difference. For one there are enough chapters about nonviolence in the Qur'an for anyone inclined that way, 2nd the chapters recited during prayers can not be legislated ,and finally the majority of the world Muslims do not even attend congregational prayers on a regular basis. There is only one chapter that is obligatory at each prayer and that chapter does talk about compassion. I truly believe that what is happening across the Levant is political. With ISIS(sunni), it is a fight between Sunnis (minority) & Shias (majority) for control over Iraqi political institutions. The Iraqi prime minister Al Maliki (shia) has built a Shia sectarian state where Sunni are not accommodated and are arrested and oppressed routinely. This is what ISIS is exploiting to recruit members. I think any solution to this can not ignore the context of this violence: there are political and social causes that allow radical voices to be heard and acted upon, and this has nothing to do with the core values or practices of Muslims as a whole. We need to present a different ideology to the marginalized who fall for the radical rhetoric, and that starts with a conversation, but any attempt to modify the core values of the religion itself will fail.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 22:29     Subject: Re:Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Clearly, math matters when talking about modern Islam.

YES -- a vast majority of Muslims are peaceful. Only an idiot would refute that.

HOWEVER - there are enough self-declared Muslims that are waging wars that are in no way arbitrary or evidence of crazy or loony behavior. To identify systemic, violent jihad as evidence of merely crazy or loony behavior is intellectually dishonest. There is a propaganda war happening for the minds of young Muslims, and thank Allah (SWT) most are fine. Yet ENOUGH are boarding planes and fighting wars in the Levant. Enough are fighting in the streets of Mogadishu. Enough have joined Boko Haram.

We have to analyze these truths side by side -- on the one had, billions of Muslims are great -- on the other hand, ENOUGH (whatever that number actually is) are causing worldwide disturbances that are too many to list here.

The question still remains, how to reduce the allure of an Islam that promises a return to the roots, a rejection of modern life, an embrace of a religious-warrior lifestyle that sees the complex world in stark black and white terms.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 22:26     Subject: Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Anonymous wrote:The District of Columbia alone recorded 108 homicides in 2014 - how many were committed by Christians? Do we need to change the daily practices of Catholics and Protestants respectively?


Really? These homicides were committed in the name of God, for the killers' hopes for Heaven? I guess we do need to emphasize more clearly that you can't get to heaven by murdering people.

Or maybe these homicides in DC were not committed in the name of religion. That seems likely to me.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 22:24     Subject: Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
The District of Columbia alone recorded 108 homicides in 2014 - how many were committed by Christians? Do we need to change the daily practices of Catholics and Protestants respectively?
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 22:15     Subject: Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Muslima wrote:

You want 1.6 Billion people to pray a certain way and change their entire lifestyle because of a few lunatics?


I think what you meant to write is:

"You want 1.6 Billion people to pray a certain way and change their entire lifestyle because of a few hundred thousand lunatics?"
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 22:11     Subject: Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Muslima wrote:

This is the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. You have got to be kidding! You want 1.6 Billion people to pray a certain way and change their entire lifestyle because of a few lunatics? As far as what should be recited in prayers, just so you know, the Qur'an has 114 surahs (chapters) and 113 of them start with " In the name of God, the most Merciful, the most beneficent" and every single prayer ends with "May the peace and the Mercy of Allah be upon you". Having every single donation by Muslims being investigated? Com'on! And as far as making Hajj just for Muslims, well only Muslims can perform Hajj. And there is no way, any other requirement can be attached to Hajj as far as being a militant or to agree to any ideology/Philosophy, the only requirement is to be a Muslim, changing that would be contrary to the religion, unIslamic and not going to happen. While we are at it, how about we make guns illegal in every single state, since every single day, some lunatic can buy one and murder innocent civilians?


Muslima, I've read your previous posts and I admire your commitment to defend your faith. I simply think that the daily practices of Muslims should include more prayers about nonviolence. Why then did neighbors in Mosul turn on their Christian bretheren? Why did they take their homes, jewelry, and property? Because those Muslims are evil? No, they were not all evil. Because they were opportunists? No, not that either. Because they were afraid of ISIS? Yes, fear is a part of it all -- but at the end of the day, they turned on Christians because they are Christian, and they are akafir. The violence was justified to expand Sunni power, which necessarily meant crushing Yezidis and other minorities. Ensuring the survival of Sunni Islam meant the physical and political elimination of their enemies. If enough Muslims said this is NOT islam, we are NOT going to do your bidding, then perhaps IS would have stopped in its tracks. Don't forget that IS was initially welcomed by the Maslawis.

Please do not discount what is happening in Iraq and Syria (as the example I'm using in this thread) as simply the collective acts of loonies and crazies. They've got historical precedent and they are trying to restore the religious and political sovereignty of Sunni Islam across the Levant.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 22:01     Subject: Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Anonymous wrote:Religion is clearly not the issue. It's used as a motivator by those who exploit. It is used in an attempt to gain political power.

Every monotheistic religion has been used this way. Stop being part of the "us vs them" problem. It's a political tool of the weak, not a religion problem.



I agree, it is a motivator -- and it is used to gain political power because in many Islamic communities, politics and religion are ONE.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:59     Subject: Re:Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Anonymous wrote:
1. What part of the daily ritual of Muslims is violent?

2. There are plenty of clerics who say over and over that terrorism is not the path to salvation.

3. This is EXACTLY like the Klan problem. The South had ministers who preached that segregation of the races was biblical. That didn't mean that all of Christianity was to blame for them.


1 - I never said that any part of the daily ritual of a Muslim is violent. I have plenty of Muslim friends that are anything but violent. I said that the philosophy of nonviolence should be more integrated in the daily practices and rituals of Muslims. Violence is a part of historic and modern Islam. It's not a pacifist faith as we all know. Imagine if a young man considering Jihad was reminded that his hajj will be rejected by Allah if he pursues political jihad. Maybe that is enough of a deterrent for some people -- knowing that other acts of religiosity are negated if they are pursuing violent jihad.

2. And there are plenty of clerics that say otherwise. Go on Youtube for a bit.

3. The Klan did not become a nationwide network of killers ready to strike innocents at malls, airports, and coffee shops. Their ideology didn't resonate through the rest of America. That is not an adequate comparison. In Islam, the philosophy of political jihad has swept Somalia, Sudan, now Northern Iraq, Syria -- we can't just dismiss these people as crazies. It's not intellectually honest to do so.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:54     Subject: Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Religion is clearly not the issue. It's used as a motivator by those who exploit. It is used in an attempt to gain political power.

Every monotheistic religion has been used this way. Stop being part of the "us vs them" problem. It's a political tool of the weak, not a religion problem.
Muslima
Post 01/11/2015 21:27     Subject: Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Anonymous wrote:Here are some of my ideas on how society can confront, and perhaps reduce, the number of individuals committing themselves to militant Islam:

1) Change Friday Prayers
- Muslim leaders should provide prayer verses that imams can recite in Friday prayer that stresses the nonviolent and peaceful nature of Islam
- Integrate these prayer verses in other salats
- Imagine if 1.6 billion people repeated verses on nonviolence -- truly, that philosophy would sink in??

2) Connect almsgiving with nonviolence
- Every Muslim organization receiving alms from Muslims must require Muslims to sign an agreement stipulating their commitment to nonviolence. Imams and religious
leaders should stress that faithful Muslims may negate their almsgiving (and lose favor with Allah) if they support or pursue militant jihad

3) Change requirements for Hajj
- Only Muslims can complete Hajj. I am not sure how that is enforced. I think the global Muslim community -- the same organizations denouncing jihad- - should stress that only non-militants can complete Hajj. They should require all Hajj participants to agree to an Islamic philosophy of nonviolence. If they do not agree or later commit jihad, they risk losing the merit of Hajj and ultimately losing favor with Allah

4) Encourage families to report members suspected of pursuing jihad
- Family members KNOW when one of their own has gone off the deep end
- Islamic leaders should stress that family members that report their relatives to the proper authorities will earn favor with Allah, as they may help stop future jihad and the deaths of innocent people


These ideas are probably stupid or ridiculous, but it's the best that I can come up with!

Any other ideas out there?


This is the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. You have got to be kidding! You want 1.6 Billion people to pray a certain way and change their entire lifestyle because of a few lunatics? As far as what should be recited in prayers, just so you know, the Qur'an has 114 surahs (chapters) and 113 of them start with " In the name of God, the most Merciful, the most beneficent" and every single prayer ends with "May the peace and the Mercy of Allah be upon you". Having every single donation by Muslims being investigated? Com'on! And as far as making Hajj just for Muslims, well only Muslims can perform Hajj. And there is no way, any other requirement can be attached to Hajj as far as being a militant or to agree to any ideology/Philosophy, the only requirement is to be a Muslim, changing that would be contrary to the religion, unIslamic and not going to happen. While we are at it, how about we make guns illegal in every single state, since every single day, some lunatic can buy one and murder innocent civilians?
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2015 21:21     Subject: Confronting the rise & allure of Militant Islam
Let's call for an overhaul of Catholicism because of those Army of God folks. The bombings, kidnappings and shootings clearly show a lifestyle of violence taught and accepted by the church.