Anonymous
11/18/2014 14:27
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
Also to add... Alcoholism isn't just about someone's drinking - it often has to do with their thinking. It's an AA saying, but having several alcoholics in my family, I can say it's true.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 14:02
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
Anonymous wrote:I hope I haven't given the impression I'm not taking it seriously. As I said, I don't know anyone in recovery (or, I may and just don't know it) so I don't know how all this works. I did not know that you aren't supposed to be making other changes in your life at the same time. Or waiting a year for things. But the info I've learned here is giving me a new perspective on this that I haven't considered.
And I don't want it to sound like I'm making excuses for him, but he's not trying to be a "new" person, but I guess try to improve? He just said he feels like we are taking a big step, so we should do it right, and that's why he's wanting to get a better job to be in a better place financially (to sell my house and buy a new one, have $$ for the wedding and then having kids), participating more in church, distancing some questionable friends, etc.
The only part he's doing a complete 180 is the drinking.
OP, an alcoholic will tell you anything they think you want to hear. When I see someone trying to change that many things at once, all my spidey senses say is "what are they running from?"
Yes, changing jobs may make sense. But changing jobs, getting new friends, moving, getting married.. All in quick succession to quitting drinking is just a big red flag. It IS someone trying to be a new person, hoping that will cure them of the problems that make them drink. But the truth is, they rarely do. It also puts you I a bad position, because he's giving up church, friends, etc. to have a future. Later on, if the drinking returns, this can turn into "you made me..." Or "I did this for you".
Personally, I'd put aside any big plans for a year. Let him recover enough that his sobriety does not count on you not drinking. That, in itself is enough reason to give the relationship pause, because you have to be clear on whether you will drink again, and he has to respect and understand YOUR decision. Leaving it open and then needing to hash it out if you come home after a beer with friends is not a smart thing to do.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 13:26
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
Anonymous wrote:I hope I haven't given the impression I'm not taking it seriously. As I said, I don't know anyone in recovery (or, I may and just don't know it) so I don't know how all this works. I did not know that you aren't supposed to be making other changes in your life at the same time. Or waiting a year for things. But the info I've learned here is giving me a new perspective on this that I haven't considered.
And I don't want it to sound like I'm making excuses for him, but he's not trying to be a "new" person, but I guess try to improve? He just said he feels like we are taking a big step, so we should do it right, and that's why he's wanting to get a better job to be in a better place financially (to sell my house and buy a new one, have $$ for the wedding and then having kids), participating more in church, distancing some questionable friends, etc.
The only part he's doing a complete 180 is the drinking.
I guess the reason this bothers me is because he's not making these changes due to some internal, self-motivated decision to make these changes because it would improve his life overall, he's tying it to getting married. This raises two concerns. First, is he really committed to these changes, or are they things that he just feels like he "should" do? How will you both feel if he backslides on those changes and continues to be exactly the person he was before he started making these changes (including quitting drinking)? Second, if he's still unhappy after or because of these changes, how likely is he to blame you/the marriage for that unhappiness?
Anonymous
11/18/2014 13:23
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
Avoid relationships with alcholics or people who have "drinking problems" or whatever euphemism you're using. The rate of relapse is high and usually drinking problems are accompanied by all sorts of other issues that will simply break your heart over time.
I say this as someone who is married to a recovering alcoholic and who has several family members with alcoholism. I realize it sounds incredibly cold and heartless, but stay away. Just not worth it.
I say this as someone who is married to a recovering alcoholic and who has several family members with alcoholism. I realize it sounds incredibly cold and heartless, but stay away. Just not worth it.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 13:21
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
I hope I haven't given the impression I'm not taking it seriously. As I said, I don't know anyone in recovery (or, I may and just don't know it) so I don't know how all this works. I did not know that you aren't supposed to be making other changes in your life at the same time. Or waiting a year for things. But the info I've learned here is giving me a new perspective on this that I haven't considered.
And I don't want it to sound like I'm making excuses for him, but he's not trying to be a "new" person, but I guess try to improve? He just said he feels like we are taking a big step, so we should do it right, and that's why he's wanting to get a better job to be in a better place financially (to sell my house and buy a new one, have $$ for the wedding and then having kids), participating more in church, distancing some questionable friends, etc.
The only part he's doing a complete 180 is the drinking.
And I don't want it to sound like I'm making excuses for him, but he's not trying to be a "new" person, but I guess try to improve? He just said he feels like we are taking a big step, so we should do it right, and that's why he's wanting to get a better job to be in a better place financially (to sell my house and buy a new one, have $$ for the wedding and then having kids), participating more in church, distancing some questionable friends, etc.
The only part he's doing a complete 180 is the drinking.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 13:17
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
OP, in Early recovery it's often encouraged to NOT make life sweeping changes in early sobriety. The fact that he is doing so much at once only raises a red flag to me that he does not realize/appreciate/accept that the problem is HIM and his personal relationship with alcohol.
The key is- he can change everything he wants. His home, his church, his friends, you... But until he changes his relationship with booze, changing all the other stuff won't matter. And that doesn't happen overnight.
Before you make any more commitment, I would suggest you go to an AlAnon meeting or ten (which is a group for friends and families of alcoholics). I'm not sure if I can suggest other forums here, but www.soberrecovery.com has a great Family and Friends forum. There are a lot of folks there with alcohol and other substance abuse problems who are happy to answer questions that maybe your partner doesn't want to answer. It's a really excellent resource. Your boyfriend may also find some help there, as there are forums for recovery and a heck of a lot of information on various modes of recovery.
The key is- he can change everything he wants. His home, his church, his friends, you... But until he changes his relationship with booze, changing all the other stuff won't matter. And that doesn't happen overnight.
Before you make any more commitment, I would suggest you go to an AlAnon meeting or ten (which is a group for friends and families of alcoholics). I'm not sure if I can suggest other forums here, but www.soberrecovery.com has a great Family and Friends forum. There are a lot of folks there with alcohol and other substance abuse problems who are happy to answer questions that maybe your partner doesn't want to answer. It's a really excellent resource. Your boyfriend may also find some help there, as there are forums for recovery and a heck of a lot of information on various modes of recovery.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 13:07
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
Anonymous wrote:I didn't encourage or ask him to quit drinking. I have told him he needs to work on control, stopping at 3 beers instead of getting all hyped up and having 6 and then ordering shots for everyone. We really aren't the kind of couple that is out drinking very often, so those incidences were not common. He never has been a daily drinker. He just is a binge drinker when he does drink, which is his problem.
I think the impetus for this is that we are moving in together, and he wants a fresh start at the beginning of our new life together. He's making other changes (job, friends, church) that he feels will make him a better person and good husband/father after we are married.
Thank you all for your advice. I feel much better about talking about this with him now that I know more. I'm really hoping that he was just being over-ambitious, and now that it's been a few weeks, he is being more realistic about it.
I get the feeling that you are kind of brushing off people's concerns, and that's fine. But I also find it a little concerning that he is making a whole bunch of changes, including forcing you to stop drinking, in order to get ready to get married. That's usually not a good sign that someone is ready to get married, setting aside the binge drinking/alcoholism.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 13:05
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
When I first gave up drinking, I couldn't stand being around others who were drinking. Part of it was jealousy and part of it was just that I thought that they were behaving like idiots (and I'd lost my right to do the same). After about 18 months, I got over that. Now I find other people drinking to be quite amusing at times. I keep beer and wine in my house for others.
If he is not in AA or going to meetings, I would be very wary. If he is, I might throw him a bone and stop drinking for a while -- but don't let him dictate what you can and can't do for the long run.
Goodl luck.
If he is not in AA or going to meetings, I would be very wary. If he is, I might throw him a bone and stop drinking for a while -- but don't let him dictate what you can and can't do for the long run.
Goodl luck.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 13:04
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
Anonymous[b wrote:]I didn't encourage or ask him to quit drinking. I have told him he needs to work on control, stopping at 3 beers instead of getting all hyped up and having 6 and then ordering shots for everyone.[/b] We really aren't the kind of couple that is out drinking very often, so those incidences were not common. He never has been a daily drinker. He just is a binge drinker when he does drink, which is his problem.
I think the impetus for this is that we are moving in together, and he wants a fresh start at the beginning of our new life together. He's making other changes (job, friends, church) that he feels will make him a better person and good husband/father after we are married.
Thank you all for your advice. I feel much better about talking about this with him now that I know more. I'm really hoping that he was just being over-ambitious, and now that it's been a few weeks, he is being more realistic about it.
I can't do this. If I start drinking, I can't control how much I drink. My only choice is to not drink at all.
Your suggestion may not work for your boyfriend.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 13:04
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
Anonymous wrote:I didn't encourage or ask him to quit drinking. I have told him he needs to work on control, stopping at 3 beers instead of getting all hyped up and having 6 and then ordering shots for everyone. We really aren't the kind of couple that is out drinking very often, so those incidences were not common. He never has been a daily drinker. He just is a binge drinker when he does drink, which is his problem.
I think the impetus for this is that we are moving in together, and he wants a fresh start at the beginning of our new life together. He's making other changes (job, friends, church) that he feels will make him a better person and good husband/father after we are married.
Thank you all for your advice. I feel much better about talking about this with him now that I know more. I'm really hoping that he was just being over-ambitious, and now that it's been a few weeks, he is being more realistic about it.
There are about 17 kinds of red flags here. The need to make himself over into some completely new person because you're moving in together and talking about getting married is very strange. As is the fact that he's insisting you make changes that you're not on board with as well.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 13:02
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
Anonymous wrote:OP here - He is planning on moving in with me in January when his lease is up (he is already over there about half the week anyway.) Which is why not having it in the house was discussed. We have been talking about marriage and I assume, based on our discussions, he will be proposing early next year.
So, I'm thinking I should suggest he attend AA meetings and speak with people there about his request that I need to become a sober person too?
We are going to a friends destination wedding next year. My parents have a house at the beach we go to several times over the summer. I like being able to have a beer when I'm on vacation or at a celebration. I really don't have much of a problem with not drinking on our local/regular outings like I usually do. But I don't think that's something I want to completely omit, especially on special occasions.
And I feel like breaking up over me having 2 or 3 beers at a wedding is ridiculous, and makes me seem like I'm the one with the problem for not giving it up for the sake of a relationship. Not saying I anticipate this being a cause to break up, but I'm unsure how attached to this idea he is, because I haven't really pressed the issue since I don't know how this whole thing works. I'm hoping he was just being over-zealous in his initial pursuit into being a sober person.
No. Hell, no.
He shouldn't move in with you or propose marriage until he has been sober for an entire year. He is going to go through a lot of stuff in that first year of sobriety. He will change. The relationship may not survive it. You both need to back off and see what happens over the next year.
.
If he relapses, do you really want a relapsed alcoholic living with you? That's crazy.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 12:59
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
I agree with everyone that he is being unreasonable. But, I would cut him a little slack this early on -- maybe he is feeling frightened and out of control, and is worried that if you drink, or even if he can smell/taste alcohol on your breath, that he won't be able to manage the powerful temptation to drink. I would sit down with him and talk this through, and find out what thoughts and fears are behind this request. Hear him out, even if you feel he is being unreasonable. If you are to be moving in together and married in the future, it's essential that you are able to talk and communicate about his recovery, and your own feelings and concerns have to matter, too.
Recovery can be all-consuming and it's a tricky time to make major life changes like moving in or marrying. I would give him time and let the dust settle a bit, and get yourself to al-anon meetings because you will need support, too. His perspective about your drinking may very well change, once he becomes involved in AA (which he should). As PP said, it can't hurt to abstain for 6 months or so and go while he is in the early days and go from there.
Recovery can be all-consuming and it's a tricky time to make major life changes like moving in or marrying. I would give him time and let the dust settle a bit, and get yourself to al-anon meetings because you will need support, too. His perspective about your drinking may very well change, once he becomes involved in AA (which he should). As PP said, it can't hurt to abstain for 6 months or so and go while he is in the early days and go from there.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 12:54
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
I didn't encourage or ask him to quit drinking. I have told him he needs to work on control, stopping at 3 beers instead of getting all hyped up and having 6 and then ordering shots for everyone. We really aren't the kind of couple that is out drinking very often, so those incidences were not common. He never has been a daily drinker. He just is a binge drinker when he does drink, which is his problem.
I think the impetus for this is that we are moving in together, and he wants a fresh start at the beginning of our new life together. He's making other changes (job, friends, church) that he feels will make him a better person and good husband/father after we are married.
Thank you all for your advice. I feel much better about talking about this with him now that I know more. I'm really hoping that he was just being over-ambitious, and now that it's been a few weeks, he is being more realistic about it.
I think the impetus for this is that we are moving in together, and he wants a fresh start at the beginning of our new life together. He's making other changes (job, friends, church) that he feels will make him a better person and good husband/father after we are married.
Thank you all for your advice. I feel much better about talking about this with him now that I know more. I'm really hoping that he was just being over-ambitious, and now that it's been a few weeks, he is being more realistic about it.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 12:41
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
Wow OP, your boyfriend is out of line. His alcoholism has nothing to do with whether you want to have a drink now and then. He is the one with the problem not you. Why should you be "punished" for having a drink with friends or at a wedding? You are not in control of his addiction, he is - so he has no business asking you to quit altogether.
He sounds very controlling and he's not taking personal responsibility for his problem. OP I would think long and hard before you have him move in, let alone agree to marry him.
Him being only a "recent" recovered alcoholic is a big enough red flag to make me suggest you postpone living together or getting married anytime soon. He needs to show that he can handle life without relapsing when things get tough. But when you add on the fact that now his trying to control YOUR behavior. No way.
He needs AA meetings, and you both should probably see a counselor together. This just has bad news written all over it. I don't know how long you've been together, but honestly I think you should cut and run in the other direction.
I suspect if you stay with him we'll see you back on this board in about 1-2 years saying something like "what should I do?, my husband is a controlling, abusive drunk maniac"...."
He sounds very controlling and he's not taking personal responsibility for his problem. OP I would think long and hard before you have him move in, let alone agree to marry him.
Him being only a "recent" recovered alcoholic is a big enough red flag to make me suggest you postpone living together or getting married anytime soon. He needs to show that he can handle life without relapsing when things get tough. But when you add on the fact that now his trying to control YOUR behavior. No way.
He needs AA meetings, and you both should probably see a counselor together. This just has bad news written all over it. I don't know how long you've been together, but honestly I think you should cut and run in the other direction.
I suspect if you stay with him we'll see you back on this board in about 1-2 years saying something like "what should I do?, my husband is a controlling, abusive drunk maniac"...."
Anonymous
11/18/2014 12:41
Subject: Dating Newly Sober Alcoholic(?)
PP here who thinks your bf is being unreasonable. I would say, however, that in the early months of sobriety, it would be helpful for you to not drink even on special occasions when you are out with him, especially at a wedding. It's hard being around a bunch of people who are having a drink and having a good time when you have recently realized that you can't drink at all. But this is all more reason for him to be in AA and to have a sponsor. Traveling to weddings are the kind of things that people who are early on in AA prepare for by strategizing how they will deal with the presence of alcohol and lining up people in the program to call for support when they are feeling stressed by alcohol.Anonymous wrote:OP here - He is planning on moving in with me in January when his lease is up (he is already over there about half the week anyway.) Which is why not having it in the house was discussed. We have been talking about marriage and I assume, based on our discussions, he will be proposing early next year.
So, I'm thinking I should suggest he attend AA meetings and speak with people there about his request that I need to become a sober person too?
We are going to a friends destination wedding next year. My parents have a house at the beach we go to several times over the summer. I like being able to have a beer when I'm on vacation or at a celebration. I really don't have much of a problem with not drinking on our local/regular outings like I usually do. But I don't think that's something I want to completely omit, especially on special occasions.
And I feel like breaking up over me having 2 or 3 beers at a wedding is ridiculous, and makes me seem like I'm the one with the problem for not giving it up for the sake of a relationship. Not saying I anticipate this being a cause to break up, but I'm unsure how attached to this idea he is, because I haven't really pressed the issue since I don't know how this whole thing works. I'm hoping he was just being over-zealous in his initial pursuit into being a sober person.
Seriously, going to a destination wedding is not just about whether you will have a drink. Your bf has to have a plan in place to deal with the extra temptations he will experience during what is a "special" occasion -- as in, this is a special occasion so I should just have one drink.