Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is a really challenging situation because it is forcing you to choose between two values that are really important to you: acceptance of people generally and specifically of a cousin whom you care about AND spending the holidays with grandparents/older generation. The thing is, you aren't the one making the choice. You and your cousins are generously inviting everyone, and some people are choosing not to come. There's nothing you can do and that's hard to accept. Try to remember that you aren't excluding anyone. You are inviting all the people who are important to your family and setting a generous and accepting example for your children (and nieces and nephews) of inviting all family members. Your parents and aunt and uncle are excluding themselves. They are making the decision to deprive themselves of a holiday with their children, grandchildren, nieces, and nephews in order to make a point. It is sad for all of you that you can't all be together. But there is nothing you can do.

This. I would be sad to find that my parents were such bigots. But I would make it clear that they were 100 percent welcome and we really wanted to see them, and that it was totally their choice to exclude themselves. Your kids don't get to see your parents on the holidays because your parents have chosen being bigoted over seeing their grandchildren on the holidays.

FWIW, can you offer to drive your parents to the Thanksgiving celebration, even if it means your family takes two cars or two trips? Just on the off chance that they aren't making excuses but are just get old and weird about driving?

Not accepting the gay lifestyle does not make the OP's parent's and aunt and uncle bigots. They are older and may feel that way for religious reasons, etc.

It is unfortunate that because the OP has taken a stand for her cousin's lifestyle, that her parents were "indirectly excluded" and now the grandchildren's relationship with their grandparents will suffer. The OP could compromise and take turns spending the holidays with her parents and cousins separately like many families do when they have to split holiday visits between divorced parents, etc.

You have offered the reasons they are bigots, not an argument that they are not bigots.

My objective was not to debate bigotry. That is the problem here. Perceived bigotry becomes a soapbox at the expense of family relationships.

You did not want to debate bigotry? I see - you wanted to state that the parents are not bigots, provide specious reasons for that contention, and not have anyone call you on it? Sorry to disappoint.

Anonymous wrote:Ah, the "gay lifestyle." It involves spending the holidays with family -- not like the "straight lifestyle."

Anonymous wrote:I would deal with it by continuing to invite my cousin and his husband and invite everyone else and whomever wants to come shall come. If they don't want to come, then they don't come.

You are setting an example of acceptance and understanding to your children, and standing up to stubbornness and stupidity. They will get it when they're older. Stay strong.

You are right. They are wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is a really challenging situation because it is forcing you to choose between two values that are really important to you: acceptance of people generally and specifically of a cousin whom you care about AND spending the holidays with grandparents/older generation. The thing is, you aren't the one making the choice. You and your cousins are generously inviting everyone, and some people are choosing not to come. There's nothing you can do and that's hard to accept. Try to remember that you aren't excluding anyone. You are inviting all the people who are important to your family and setting a generous and accepting example for your children (and nieces and nephews) of inviting all family members. Your parents and aunt and uncle are excluding themselves. They are making the decision to deprive themselves of a holiday with their children, grandchildren, nieces, and nephews in order to make a point. It is sad for all of you that you can't all be together. But there is nothing you can do.

This. I would be sad to find that my parents were such bigots. But I would make it clear that they were 100 percent welcome and we really wanted to see them, and that it was totally their choice to exclude themselves. Your kids don't get to see your parents on the holidays because your parents have chosen being bigoted over seeing their grandchildren on the holidays.

FWIW, can you offer to drive your parents to the Thanksgiving celebration, even if it means your family takes two cars or two trips? Just on the off chance that they aren't making excuses but are just get old and weird about driving?

Not accepting the gay lifestyle does not make the OP's parent's and aunt and uncle bigots. They are older and may feel that way for religious reasons, etc.

It is unfortunate that because the OP has taken a stand for her cousin's lifestyle, that her parents were "indirectly excluded" and now the grandchildren's relationship with their grandparents will suffer. The OP could compromise and take turns spending the holidays with her parents and cousins separately like many families do when they have to split holiday visits between divorced parents, etc.

You have offered the reasons they are bigots, not an argument that they are not bigots.

My objective was not to debate bigotry. That is the problem here. Perceived bigotry becomes a soapbox at the expense of family relationships.

NP here. Unfortunately, you chose a poor argument. Yes, unfortunately, not accepting a gay married couple, even for religious reasons, *IS* bigotry which is the intolerance of different opinions and beliefs. It is the correct term. Whether the parents and uncles/aunts have taken such a stance due to religious reasons or for personal reasons, they are intolerant of someone who is gay and chosen to marry a partner of the same sex. It is unfortunate, but the parents are not excluded. They have been purposely included, but have chosen to exclude themselves by concocting specious reasons that only highlight that they are being intolerant.

OP--I think the best that you can do is continue as you have done. Include the cousin and his husband in the festivities, invite the older generation and accept when they decline. Would you prefer that they show up and make a scene being rude and intolerant to the cousin and his husband directly to their faces? My suggestion for trying to get some holiday time with your parents so that your kids can see their grandparents is have a small intimate family setting with them after the big event. So have Thanksgiving dinner on Thursday with the big extended family and if your parents don't come, then have brunch on Saturday or Sunday with your parents and the kids. Likewise, if you see the extended family for Christmas dinner and your parents don't show, invite them for brunch on New Year's Day.

I'm so glad this thread so far includes only one idiot who thinks you should accommodate hate.

Stick to your guns, OP. My (lesbian) partner's family are very Catholic. A few in her immediate family, including her mother, took a little time to get used to the idea of our relationship, but very soon they embraced me as another in-law.

Members of her extended family, however, disappeared from holiday gatherings for about 7 years...until one of their kids came out. Then, suddenly, we were being cornered at the family reunion and thanked for being such wonderful role models for little Susie.

I'm sorry your parents will miss Thanksgiving. Too bad they aren't sorry enough to set their bigotry aside for one night.

If it were me, I would say that all family members wanting to enjoy a nice holiday together are welcome. Hostile members can stay in their homes and pout like children. It doesn't matter the reason. If you can't get along stay home. It's so simple to me.

The older generation is being very passive-aggressive, but I think it's because they still care about your cousin and don't want to start a big family blowout (though it's going to happen sooner or later, trust me).

Just continue to make plans that will include everyone. It's other peoples' choices to exclude themselves.

Does the gay cousin get to see his/your parents any other time during the year? Or have they effectively disowned him for his lifestyle?

Anonymous wrote:How about you let all this old f**kers spend the holidays alone.

+103223409540t8245

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is a really challenging situation because it is forcing you to choose between two values that are really important to you: acceptance of people generally and specifically of a cousin whom you care about AND spending the holidays with grandparents/older generation. The thing is, you aren't the one making the choice. You and your cousins are generously inviting everyone, and some people are choosing not to come. There's nothing you can do and that's hard to accept. Try to remember that you aren't excluding anyone. You are inviting all the people who are important to your family and setting a generous and accepting example for your children (and nieces and nephews) of inviting all family members. Your parents and aunt and uncle are excluding themselves. They are making the decision to deprive themselves of a holiday with their children, grandchildren, nieces, and nephews in order to make a point. It is sad for all of you that you can't all be together. But there is nothing you can do.

This. I would be sad to find that my parents were such bigots. But I would make it clear that they were 100 percent welcome and we really wanted to see them, and that it was totally their choice to exclude themselves. Your kids don't get to see your parents on the holidays because your parents have chosen being bigoted over seeing their grandchildren on the holidays.

FWIW, can you offer to drive your parents to the Thanksgiving celebration, even if it means your family takes two cars or two trips? Just on the off chance that they aren't making excuses but are just get old and weird about driving?

Not accepting the gay lifestyle does not make the OP's parent's and aunt and uncle bigots. They are older and may feel that way for religious reasons, etc.

It is unfortunate that because the OP has taken a stand for her cousin's lifestyle, that her parents were "indirectly excluded" and now the grandchildren's relationship with their grandparents will suffer. The OP could compromise and take turns spending the holidays with her parents and cousins separately like many families do when they have to split holiday visits between divorced parents, etc.

You have offered the reasons they are bigots, not an argument that they are not bigots.

My objective was not to debate bigotry. That is the problem here. Perceived bigotry becomes a soapbox at the expense of family relationships.

Ah, the "gay lifestyle." It involves spending the holidays with family -- not like the "straight lifestyle."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would just make sure they understand that their excuses are flimsy. Just point out exactly what you've told us. I think it's fine to say, "I will tell everyone that you're not comfortable driving here but you well know they'll see right through that reason. It's painfully obvious that you will not be where Bob is and we are all aware of it. Of course it's your choice but it makes me sad that you're willing to miss a holiday with your grandkids because of it."

I would do this, too. "Someone could drive you, or you could stay over. However, we know that won't solve the real problem. It makes me sad that you've chosen not to spend the time with family.. but it is your decision. Enjoy your Thanksgiving."

I agree with this. And, although it's hard, I would drive the point home by not scheduling any future holidays at your parents' or aunt and uncle's houses. If they want to exclude themselves, that's their perogative. But they don't get to make a family member feel unwelcome at the holidays and exclude them because of bigotry. If someone is to spend the holidays alone, it's the bigots, not the victims of bigotry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is a really challenging situation because it is forcing you to choose between two values that are really important to you: acceptance of people generally and specifically of a cousin whom you care about AND spending the holidays with grandparents/older generation. The thing is, you aren't the one making the choice. You and your cousins are generously inviting everyone, and some people are choosing not to come. There's nothing you can do and that's hard to accept. Try to remember that you aren't excluding anyone. You are inviting all the people who are important to your family and setting a generous and accepting example for your children (and nieces and nephews) of inviting all family members. Your parents and aunt and uncle are excluding themselves. They are making the decision to deprive themselves of a holiday with their children, grandchildren, nieces, and nephews in order to make a point. It is sad for all of you that you can't all be together. But there is nothing you can do.

This. I would be sad to find that my parents were such bigots. But I would make it clear that they were 100 percent welcome and we really wanted to see them, and that it was totally their choice to exclude themselves. Your kids don't get to see your parents on the holidays because your parents have chosen being bigoted over seeing their grandchildren on the holidays.

FWIW, can you offer to drive your parents to the Thanksgiving celebration, even if it means your family takes two cars or two trips? Just on the off chance that they aren't making excuses but are just get old and weird about driving?

Not accepting the gay lifestyle does not make the OP's parent's and aunt and uncle bigots. They are older and may feel that way for religious reasons, etc.

It is unfortunate that because the OP has taken a stand for her cousin's lifestyle, that her parents were "indirectly excluded" and now the grandchildren's relationship with their grandparents will suffer. The OP could compromise and take turns spending the holidays with her parents and cousins separately like many families do when they have to split holiday visits between divorced parents, etc.

You have offered the reasons they are bigots, not an argument that they are not bigots.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is a really challenging situation because it is forcing you to choose between two values that are really important to you: acceptance of people generally and specifically of a cousin whom you care about AND spending the holidays with grandparents/older generation. The thing is, you aren't the one making the choice. You and your cousins are generously inviting everyone, and some people are choosing not to come. There's nothing you can do and that's hard to accept. Try to remember that you aren't excluding anyone. You are inviting all the people who are important to your family and setting a generous and accepting example for your children (and nieces and nephews) of inviting all family members. Your parents and aunt and uncle are excluding themselves. They are making the decision to deprive themselves of a holiday with their children, grandchildren, nieces, and nephews in order to make a point. It is sad for all of you that you can't all be together. But there is nothing you can do.

This. I would be sad to find that my parents were such bigots. But I would make it clear that they were 100 percent welcome and we really wanted to see them, and that it was totally their choice to exclude themselves. Your kids don't get to see your parents on the holidays because your parents have chosen being bigoted over seeing their grandchildren on the holidays.

FWIW, can you offer to drive your parents to the Thanksgiving celebration, even if it means your family takes two cars or two trips? Just on the off chance that they aren't making excuses but are just get old and weird about driving?

Not accepting the gay lifestyle does not make the OP's parent's and aunt and uncle bigots. They are older and may feel that way for religious reasons, etc.

It is unfortunate that because the OP has taken a stand for her cousin's lifestyle, that her parents were "indirectly excluded" and now the grandchildren's relationship with their grandparents will suffer. The OP could compromise and take turns spending the holidays with her parents and cousins separately like many families do when they have to split holiday visits between divorced parents, etc.

Anonymous wrote:I think this is a really challenging situation because it is forcing you to choose between two values that are really important to you: acceptance of people generally and specifically of a cousin whom you care about AND spending the holidays with grandparents/older generation. The thing is, you aren't the one making the choice. You and your cousins are generously inviting everyone, and some people are choosing not to come. There's nothing you can do and that's hard to accept. Try to remember that you aren't excluding anyone. You are inviting all the people who are important to your family and setting a generous and accepting example for your children (and nieces and nephews) of inviting all family members. Your parents and aunt and uncle are excluding themselves. They are making the decision to deprive themselves of a holiday with their children, grandchildren, nieces, and nephews in order to make a point. It is sad for all of you that you can't all be together. But there is nothing you can do.

This. I would be sad to find that my parents were such bigots. But I would make it clear that they were 100 percent welcome and we really wanted to see them, and that it was totally their choice to exclude themselves. Your kids don't get to see your parents on the holidays because your parents have chosen being bigoted over seeing their grandchildren on the holidays.

FWIW, can you offer to drive your parents to the Thanksgiving celebration, even if it means your family takes two cars or two trips? Just on the off chance that they aren't making excuses but are just get old and weird about driving?

Anonymous wrote:How about you let all this old f**kers spend the holidays alone.

*those