PP makes a good point. I've seen people drive away friends and loved ones by constantly testing them to "prove" they care about them enough. This is not what relationships should be like. You are not in middle school.

While family relationships may be filled with obligations and responsibilities and still last, few friendships last if they feel like burdens. Friendships may go through difficulty but they should not be so much work. If you cannot enjoy each other, then people will stop investing.

Don't seek in others for validation or purpose.

Anonymous wrote:OP again.

I admit I have the low self esteem and neediness. Maybe I ask a lot from my friends. But don't I give wholeheartedly too? I understand I should not expect exact reciprocation. But then how do I know I'm not being taken for granted?

I do know that not being needy might solve most of this. And I do play the victim.

Your friends might take you for granted. That is not something to guard against so strenuously that you test your friends or drive them away. To some extent, at one time or another, we all take loved ones for granted. That's different from being taken advantage of or being betrayed.

OP again.

I admit I have the low self esteem and neediness. Maybe I ask a lot from my friends. But don't I give wholeheartedly too? I understand I should not expect exact reciprocation. But then how do I know I'm not being taken for granted?

I do know that not being needy might solve most of this. And I do play the victim.

OP here. Thread has been an eye-opener. hmmm. I will reflect and comment later when I've more time.

Bummer. My best friends are my family, but also my girls from elementary school. We've been friends for over 30 years. I love them and they are family!

Anonymous wrote:Op...you sound desparate and are probably passive agressive.

OP...how old are you?

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Op - you can share, I'll listen. [/quote]

Ok. Please keep in mind I'm just listing it so it may seem a bit more rude than intended.

She was dating a jerk. She would call and text about how he cheated on her, called her fat, Etc. The advice I gave her she didn't want to hear ( I.e dump him). After awhile I stopped giving her advice when she complained about him. When they eventually broke up, she actually got mad at me for not making her break up with him sooner.

She started dating another jerk shortly after. I made a remark along the lines of "he seems a lot like ex" and she swore he was different. I didn't have the energy to go through another long time telling her to dump the jerk.

We have similar careers, I'm an RN, she's an LPN. We started at the same time and I did an accelerated BSN as I already had a masters. She didn't have the grades to get into an RN program. Any time I mentioned anything about school, she saw it as bragging and acting superior to her. Even if it was something like bitching about a tough day during clinicals. But if she needed to talk about nursing stuff, she expected me to listen.

We have been with our SO for the same amount of time. DH and I are married and have a kid. Her boyfriend just decided it was ok for her to move in. (We've all been together for 6 years). If I ever brought up wedding stuff, she would be mad and jealous. And yet later I was expected to hear all the details of her potential future wedding and plans.

She also had very low self esteem which manifested into a weird kind of "you have to be the same friend to me as I am to you and I will hold it against you if you don't live up to my standards" type mentality. But really her idea of investing so much thiught and effort into the friendship was misguided. She spent so much time looking at all the things I didn't do that she completely didn't notice the things I did do. She expected me to be able to drop everything when she was having a rough spell not understanding that I work full time, have a husband, and have a kid and that her talking about how her boyfriend still hadn't popped the question for the umpteenth time is not going to be a priority for me.

I'm not saying I'm a perfect friend. No one is. But her expectation of perfection meant that all the things I did that didn't measure up to her standards meant she discounted all the ways I was a good friend.

It finally got to be too much for me and I actually posted about it online here. All those pps were right that I needed to back away from the friendship. [/quote]

Both you and your friend are insufferable. You two losers deserve each other. Grow the fuck up.

Anonymous wrote:No I always asked if I wanted help or advice - clearly!

OP, maybe I missed how old you are but since you are married I assume your friends are too and are also starting to have kids. It's unrealistic to expect to be number one to friends when they have husbands and kids. I get the feelin they aren't helping enough not that they aren't helping at all.

Okay, I think it's time for you to focus on yourself. You may be too clingy. For whatever reason these people are not appreciating you or treating you in a way you expect.

Think about not what you want/expect from your friends, but the kind of person you just enjoy spending time with. Be THAT person. Cultivate your own passions. Be interesting, accomplished, etc. Focus on yourself. But don't burn bridges with your friends.

The friendships will continue to evolve and deepen. Give it time. Don't force things.

No I always asked if I wanted help or advice - clearly!

Op...you sound desparate and are probably passive agressive.

Pp here with the experience of my friend. I think the bolded part is common in all close relationships. But keep in mind that the way you think you're a perfect friend may actually be annoying to others. One of my best friends has a habit of completely getting involved if I'm having a tough time. If I share with her, she'll call/ text/ send emails that she's thinking of me, has been thinking about ways to improve the situation, and even just "this should cheer you up" things. It was really sweet but also totally suffocating! It took me years to work up the guts to tell her to please back down.

Anyways, 2 things. I think low self esteem can cause us to concentrate on the negatives. "I'm not good enough which is why she treats me like crap" when really she's not.

Second, people have different personalities. Most people react to others how they themselves would want to be treated. If you need something different, speak up! People aren't mind readers!!

OP, I know people like 20:58 described, and I did get a similar vibe from your initial post, which is why I asked about what you called "betrayal." The "no one loves me" and "no one is fair is me" victim approach to life that you use to then justify cutting people out of your life is not an honest reflection of reality. Nor is it mature. If you don't want to deal with these people anymore, then fine, don't. But that's not their "fault." It is YOUR decision. Be a grown up and take responsibility. You are entitled to cut these people out. But is unfair for you to blame it on them when they haven't actually done anything to warrant it.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Op - you can share, I'll listen. [/quote]

Ok. Please keep in mind I'm just listing it so it may seem a bit more rude than intended.

She was dating a jerk. She would call and text about how he cheated on her, called her fat, Etc. The advice I gave her she didn't want to hear ( I.e dump him). After awhile I stopped giving her advice when she complained about him. When they eventually broke up, she actually got mad at me for not making her break up with him sooner.

She started dating another jerk shortly after. I made a remark along the lines of "he seems a lot like ex" and she swore he was different. I didn't have the energy to go through another long time telling her to dump the jerk.

We have similar careers, I'm an RN, she's an LPN. We started at the same time and I did an accelerated BSN as I already had a masters. She didn't have the grades to get into an RN program. Any time I mentioned anything about school, she saw it as bragging and acting superior to her. Even if it was something like bitching about a tough day during clinicals. But if she needed to talk about nursing stuff, she expected me to listen.

We have been with our SO for the same amount of time. DH and I are married and have a kid. Her boyfriend just decided it was ok for her to move in. (We've all been together for 6 years). If I ever brought up wedding stuff, she would be mad and jealous. And yet later I was expected to hear all the details of her potential future wedding and plans.

She also had very low self esteem which manifested into a weird kind of "you have to be the same friend to me as I am to you and I will hold it against you if you don't live up to my standards" type mentality. But really her idea of investing so much thiught and effort into the friendship was misguided. She spent so much time looking at all the things I didn't do that she completely didn't notice the things I did do. She expected me to be able to drop everything when she was having a rough spell not understanding that I work full time, have a husband, and have a kid and that her talking about how her boyfriend still hadn't popped the question for the umpteenth time is not going to be a priority for me.

[b]I'm not saying I'm a perfect friend. No one is. But her expectation of perfection meant that all the things I did that didn't measure up to her standards meant she discounted all the ways I was a good friend. [/b]

It finally got to be too much for me and I actually posted about it online here. All those pps were right that I needed to back away from the friendship. [/quote]
I really relate to the bolded part above. I'm sorry, because this kind of thing is painful. Thank you for sharing it.

[quote=Anonymous]Op - you can share, I'll listen. [/quote]

Ok. Please keep in mind I'm just listing it so it may seem a bit more rude than intended.

She was dating a jerk. She would call and text about how he cheated on her, called her fat, Etc. The advice I gave her she didn't want to hear ( I.e dump him). After awhile I stopped giving her advice when she complained about him. When they eventually broke up, she actually got mad at me for not making her break up with him sooner.

She started dating another jerk shortly after. I made a remark along the lines of "he seems a lot like ex" and she swore he was different. I didn't have the energy to go through another long time telling her to dump the jerk.

We have similar careers, I'm an RN, she's an LPN. We started at the same time and I did an accelerated BSN as I already had a masters. She didn't have the grades to get into an RN program. Any time I mentioned anything about school, she saw it as bragging and acting superior to her. Even if it was something like bitching about a tough day during clinicals. But if she needed to talk about nursing stuff, she expected me to listen.

We have been with our SO for the same amount of time. DH and I are married and have a kid. Her boyfriend just decided it was ok for her to move in. (We've all been together for 6 years). If I ever brought up wedding stuff, she would be mad and jealous. And yet later I was expected to hear all the details of her potential future wedding and plans.

She also had very low self esteem which manifested into a weird kind of "you have to be the same friend to me as I am to you and I will hold it against you if you don't live up to my standards" type mentality. But really her idea of investing so much thiught and effort into the friendship was misguided. She spent so much time looking at all the things I didn't do that she completely didn't notice the things I did do. She expected me to be able to drop everything when she was having a rough spell not understanding that I work full time, have a husband, and have a kid and that her talking about how her boyfriend still hadn't popped the question for the umpteenth time is not going to be a priority for me.

I'm not saying I'm a perfect friend. No one is. But her expectation of perfection meant that all the things I did that didn't measure up to her standards meant she discounted all the ways I was a good friend.

It finally got to be too much for me and I actually posted about it online here. All those pps were right that I needed to back away from the friendship.