Anonymous wrote:
So I located a passage from the earliest English translation of Quran from 1734. It apparently was translated from a Latin version of the Quran. It uses the word God instead of Allah; presumably the Latin used "Deus" and not Allah. So our Christian forefathers had no problem seeing the God Muslims worshiped as the monotheistic God they worshiped or that the Jews worshiped.

The God of the Old Testament is very different from the God of the New Testament, and yet I can't imagine any Jew I know who wouldn't take offense at being asked at which temple he worshiped Yahweh.

The core here is belief in one creator God and no other gods beside him.

Pickthall uses Allah and I couldn't find any reasons why, except perhaps that it was commissioned by the ruler of Hyderabad and was written there. Perhaps it was common in India for Muslims to refer to Allah owing to the polytheistic culture. (Of course there are Indian Christians who must have a native tongue word for God, but I am totally out of my depth on this subcontinent.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.

+1

Saying Allah in English to refer to the god Muslims worship is stylistically incorrect, theologically suspect, and a subtle undermining of Islam.

Someone on the Ebola thread got exercised about posters referring to Medcins Sans Frontiers instead of Doctors Without Border when writing in English. Using Allah instead of God is a much worse offense.

To be fair, Muslims are the first perpetrators of this offense. Most Muslims, not just Arabic speakers, don't say god, they say allah in all its possible renditions. This includes people who don't speak a word of Arabic, and it includes languages other than English.

Absolutely. Look into fatwa sites in non-English languages. They all end with "And Allah knows best" in whatever language they use, not "and God knows best."

Yes--it's very annoying. I think they get it from the 19th century translators of the Quran into English, where "Allah" is invariably translated as "Allah" instead of God. The translators were intent on showing that the Islamic Allah was an exotic god different from the solid British God they worshipped.

I'm not convinced that you can put a negative connotation to using the word Allah in English, or call it an attempt to exotify Islam. Wasn't one of those early translators, Pickthall maybe, a convert?

Nevertheless, Islam is very different from Christianity in ways going far beyond the Trinity. Love your enemy, all that stuff.

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not convinced that you can put a negative connotation to using the word Allah in English, or call it an attempt to exotify Islam. Wasn't one of those early translators, Pickthall maybe, a convert?

Nevertheless, Islam is very different from Christianity in ways going far beyond the Trinity. Love your enemy, all that stuff.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.

+1

Saying Allah in English to refer to the god Muslims worship is stylistically incorrect, theologically suspect, and a subtle undermining of Islam.

Someone on the Ebola thread got exercised about posters referring to Medcins Sans Frontiers instead of Doctors Without Border when writing in English. Using Allah instead of God is a much worse offense.

To be fair, Muslims are the first perpetrators of this offense. Most Muslims, not just Arabic speakers, don't say god, they say allah in all its possible renditions. This includes people who don't speak a word of Arabic, and it includes languages other than English.

Absolutely. Look into fatwa sites in non-English languages. They all end with "And Allah knows best" in whatever language they use, not "and God knows best."

Yes--it's very annoying. I think they get it from the 19th century translators of the Quran into English, where "Allah" is invariably translated as "Allah" instead of God. The translators were intent on showing that the Islamic Allah was an exotic god different from the solid British God they worshipped.

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't al lah mean "the God"? This emphasizes the strict monotheism, in opposition to the Trinity, that is a defining part of Islam. I thought Muslims referred to al Lah deliberately, and not just in Arabic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It feels to Jews and Christians as though Islam wants to co-opt their religions and present itself as the ultimate form of monotheism. They don't accept that, especially given the massive differences among the three religions, as PP pointed out. A good parallel is with the Bahais and their prophet: do you accept that this is the perfection of all monotheistic religions including Islam? I didn't think so.

I think the Bahais an apt comparison.

For the Semitic religions, we have the Jews, who had a succession of prophets. Jesus came and there were some who saw him a another prophet--I believe this is the premise of the Jews for Jesus. Had he been accepted as a prophet, Judaism would just have incorporated his message as it had incorporated the message of prophets before him.

But the Christians insist that Jesus is not a prophet, but rather the incarnation of God, appearing on earth to send a message not just to Jews, but to gentiles as well. Not surprisingly, many Jews did not embrace this view.

In a sense, Jesus was the seal of the prophets by virtue of his Godhood. This did not leave room for another prophet to be incorporated into Christianity.

Islam views Muhammed as the seal of the prophets and Jesus as the immediately previous prophet. Under Judaism there technically was room for another prophet, but even if they were inclined to embrace Muhammed, that would require embracing Jesus as prophet as well, something that had been rejected by almost all Jews.

Since Muhammed is the seal, there is no room in Islam for other prophets, so those claiming there is one like the Bahais are said to be heretical Muslims.

Note that Christianity could be considered heretical Judaism, and Islam either heretical Judaism or heretical Christianity. One could perhaps say that Islam is much more heretical to Christianity than to Judaism as the latter is theoretically open to additional prophets but the former is not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will use this thread to post examples of the subtle ways islamophobia may present, since its not always overt verbal or physical abuse. I will also provide links and quotes from leaders in the Muslim community to explain some of the common ways Islam is vilified.

One common micro aggression is to make Islam sound as if its an exotic religion, because it emphasizes that it isn't a commonly accepted belief system here in our country. This continues to identify Islam as a foreign religion rather than another accepted faith in our community.

I will explain and add more information as I find it.

I'll take Islam over Scientology any day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.

+1

Saying Allah in English to refer to the god Muslims worship is stylistically incorrect, theologically suspect, and a subtle undermining of Islam.

Someone on the Ebola thread got exercised about posters referring to Medcins Sans Frontiers instead of Doctors Without Border when writing in English. Using Allah instead of God is a much worse offense.

To be fair, Muslims are the first perpetrators of this offense. Most Muslims, not just Arabic speakers, don't say god, they say allah in all its possible renditions. This includes people who don't speak a word of Arabic, and it includes languages other than English.

Absolutely. Look into fatwa sites in non-English languages. They all end with "And Allah knows best" in whatever language they use, not "and God knows best."

Anonymous wrote:It feels to Jews and Christians as though Islam wants to co-opt their religions and present itself as the ultimate form of monotheism. They don't accept that, especially given the massive differences among the three religions, as PP pointed out. A good parallel is with the Bahais and their prophet: do you accept that this is the perfection of all monotheistic religions including Islam? I didn't think so.

Anonymous wrote:I will use this thread to post examples of the subtle ways islamophobia may present, since its not always overt verbal or physical abuse. I will also provide links and quotes from leaders in the Muslim community to explain some of the common ways Islam is vilified.

One common micro aggression is to make Islam sound as if its an exotic religion, because it emphasizes that it isn't a commonly accepted belief system here in our country. This continues to identify Islam as a foreign religion rather than another accepted faith in our community.

I will explain and add more information as I find it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.

To be fair, these three versions of "God" are each very different in their demands on their followers.

Jewish people often write G-d or Yahweh. I'd be interested to hear a Jew explain to us whether they'd prefer us to write God, or something else, when referring to the Hebrew Bible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.

+1

Saying Allah in English to refer to the god Muslims worship is stylistically incorrect, theologically suspect, and a subtle undermining of Islam.

Someone on the Ebola thread got exercised about posters referring to Medcins Sans Frontiers instead of Doctors Without Border when writing in English. Using Allah instead of God is a much worse offense.

To be fair, Muslims are the first perpetrators of this offense. Most Muslims, not just Arabic speakers, don't say god, they say allah in all its possible renditions. This includes people who don't speak a word of Arabic, and it includes languages other than English.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.

I respectfully disagree with this. As a Christian I do not believe that Muslims pray to the same God as I do. Nor do Jewish people. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but my God is a trinity which must include Jesus. If you do not believe in Jesus as God, then we do not believe in the same god. We don't need to believe in the same god to be respectful to one another.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.

+1

Saying Allah in English to refer to the god Muslims worship is stylistically incorrect, theologically suspect, and a subtle undermining of Islam.

Someone on the Ebola thread got exercised about posters referring to Medcins Sans Frontiers instead of Doctors Without Border when writing in English. Using Allah instead of God is a much worse offense.