Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in AAP and I have others in Gen Ed, so I know quite well that things don't magically even out in third grade. If anything, the kids with disciplinary problems just up their game each year.

As for being able to move ahead at their own pace: my DD was bored to tears the five weeks of school, as her teacher reviewed--in excess--the entire math curriculum of the year before because some students still hadn't "caught up." Apparently it's better to let average-to-good students languish than actually segregate low-performing students. THIS is what drives parents to AAP, including those who don't like the exclusionary aspects.

I'm the "even out" poster. I was referring to academic skills and general "learning how to be in a classroom all day" skills. By 2-3 grades all kids should be reading, even if at different levels. All children should be able to write, though some have much better penmanship. All children should be able to transition from one subject to another repeatedly through the day.

So then by Third Grade the students who are ready to move ahead should be identified and allowed to do that. It's hard to say Jenny was bored in K so she would need AAP when the time comes.

They should, but at our school, at least, they are not. They basically sit and wait while the teacher catches up the rest of the class. I've seen it with four kids now. There are pull-outs, maybe once a week, if that, and there's Level III, which is a complete joke. There were so few kids who qualified for Level III in one of my DC's classes that they gradually moved more in, until it's three-quarters of the class and absolutely nothing gets done. I can only assume the school feared they'd lose their (PT) specialist if they didn't have the numbers, so I don't blame them. However, my DD who qualified asks repeatedly if she can quit.

I should add that we've had maybe one not-great teacher in our whole tenure there. The issue is not the teachers; it's the system as it stands.

I agree that forecasting AAP from kindergarten experience is a little premature.

Anonymous wrote:I think it also depends on the age. I hate to sub in the older grades of AAP kids. They are entitled twits who think they know more than everyone else and feel they should question everything.

I'm all for questioning authority, but there is a time and a place (and a correct way to ask). Its a "cry wolf" when some of these kids ask at every. single. item.

Couldn't agree more. I'm a regular volunteer at school and these kids treat me (and other adults) like servants. They demand things without even asking in a nice way, then sigh loudly and roll their eyes if the adult isn't able to do something for them immediately. Or they'll argue if they don't like the answer they've been given. I've seen this time and time again and frankly, it's completely unacceptable behavior.

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in AAP and I have others in Gen Ed, so I know quite well that things don't magically even out in third grade. If anything, the kids with disciplinary problems just up their game each year.

As for being able to move ahead at their own pace: my DD was bored to tears the five weeks of school, as her teacher reviewed--in excess--the entire math curriculum of the year before because some students still hadn't "caught up." Apparently it's better to let average-to-good students languish than actually segregate low-performing students. THIS is what drives parents to AAP, including those who don't like the exclusionary aspects.

I'm the "even out" poster. I was referring to academic skills and general "learning how to be in a classroom all day" skills. By 2-3 grades all kids should be reading, even if at different levels. All children should be able to write, though some have much better penmanship. All children should be able to transition from one subject to another repeatedly through the day.

So then by Third Grade the students who are ready to move ahead should be identified and allowed to do that. It's hard to say Jenny was bored in K so she would need AAP when the time comes.

I think it also depends on the age. I hate to sub in the older grades of AAP kids. They are entitled twits who think they know more than everyone else and feel they should question everything.

I'm all for questioning authority, but there is a time and a place (and a correct way to ask). Its a "cry wolf" when some of these kids ask at every. single. item.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our school, I have not found that AAP = more homework or more stress. My kids have very little homework. My older child is more "stressed" but he brings that on himself. It is not born out of any competition with his peers. My younger child is far less stressed (dare I say he could care quite a bit more about his schoolwork?). I'm encouraged that he is surrounded by peers in AAP who seem to care about school. That is helpful for him.

But the primary benefit I have observed at our school (and it may not be this way everywhere)-- is that in 1st and 2nd grade, I felt like the poor teachers spent 80% of their time and energy dealing with 1) kids who were really struggling academically; and/or 2) kids with discipline problems. That meant that my kids were spending 7 hours in school, and getting about 30 minutes worth of learning each day. In AAP, I think they're getting closer to 4 hours of honest to goodness "learning" each day. That makes it worth it for me.

But there are plenty of kids with discipline problems in AAP; at our center, there may even be more. So those teachers have just as many disruptive kids to deal with as a Gen Ed teacher would.

I've heard this... and I'm sure there are AAP kids with discipline problems. But my experience with my two children's AAP classes has been the total opposite.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our school, I have not found that AAP = more homework or more stress. My kids have very little homework. My older child is more "stressed" but he brings that on himself. It is not born out of any competition with his peers. My younger child is far less stressed (dare I say he could care quite a bit more about his schoolwork?). I'm encouraged that he is surrounded by peers in AAP who seem to care about school. That is helpful for him.

But the primary benefit I have observed at our school (and it may not be this way everywhere)-- is that in 1st and 2nd grade, I felt like the poor teachers spent 80% of their time and energy dealing with 1) kids who were really struggling academically; and/or 2) kids with discipline problems. That meant that my kids were spending 7 hours in school, and getting about 30 minutes worth of learning each day. In AAP, I think they're getting closer to 4 hours of honest to goodness "learning" each day. That makes it worth it for me.

To be fair to the teachers, in K-2 the students come in at such a wide range of abilities. Just getting down the basics of letter recognition, reading, numbers, social skills takes a lot of time and energy.

Around 2-3 grade is when it starts to even out. So although AAP offers a good structure, the 3rd grade GE classes are also taught and structured in a way that wasn't possible before.

Well, I'm very happy that you think now your kids (I love it how entire families are Advanced or Gifted, btw). But it does beg the question of why kids in GE who perhaps are also quick to catch onto things are left with the teachers who are too busy with kids who are struggling or discipline problems. Would seem to me that a super smart/advanced
AAP kid could still proceed on his/her own while the teacher was working with slower kids. It is difficult to see how a kid who is merely advanced but not gifted (as perhaps yours are) needs to be hot-housed in a special program at a separate school, when other kids are actually being held back in GE classes because the teachers are too busy to meet their needs.

So much entitlement. This whole system is screwed up. And I say that as a mom who has had kids in both AAP and GE.

I'm the original 11:49 poster, and I was merely answering the OP's question: "why bother with AAP?" I didn't claim that my kids were gifted, or any more (or less) deserving of a good education than another student. (Nor was I, in ANY way criticizing the 2nd grade teachers who have their hands full and are probably putting their efforts where they are needed most).

But, if my child is going to be forced to go to school for 7 hours a day and learn NOTHING... I might as well keep him home and pretend to home school him. Except that I have a full time job. I didn't argue whether AAP is fair, or well run, or anything else. I merely stated that my goal as a parent (which I'm sure is shared by many) is to have my child learn as much as is comfortable and appropriate for him. Especially while he is still a little sponge and LIKES learning. Fair or not is not the question. I feel like my child has gotten a perk by being in AAP that makes it "worth it" to me. Perhaps that is more of a reflection on the inadequacy of gen ed at our school. But for me -- having him with a teacher who can actually TEACH TO HIM for 4 hours a day makes it worth it.

Anonymous wrote:At our school, I have not found that AAP = more homework or more stress. My kids have very little homework. My older child is more "stressed" but he brings that on himself. It is not born out of any competition with his peers. My younger child is far less stressed (dare I say he could care quite a bit more about his schoolwork?). I'm encouraged that he is surrounded by peers in AAP who seem to care about school. That is helpful for him.

But the primary benefit I have observed at our school (and it may not be this way everywhere)-- is that in 1st and 2nd grade, I felt like the poor teachers spent 80% of their time and energy dealing with 1) kids who were really struggling academically; and/or 2) kids with discipline problems. That meant that my kids were spending 7 hours in school, and getting about 30 minutes worth of learning each day. In AAP, I think they're getting closer to 4 hours of honest to goodness "learning" each day. That makes it worth it for me.

But there are plenty of kids with discipline problems in AAP; at our center, there may even be more. So those teachers have just as many disruptive kids to deal with as a Gen Ed teacher would.

My youngest is in AAP and I have others in Gen Ed, so I know quite well that things don't magically even out in third grade. If anything, the kids with disciplinary problems just up their game each year.

As for being able to move ahead at their own pace: my DD was bored to tears the five weeks of school, as her teacher reviewed--in excess--the entire math curriculum of the year before because some students still hadn't "caught up." Apparently it's better to let average-to-good students languish than actually segregate low-performing students. THIS is what drives parents to AAP, including those who don't like the exclusionary aspects.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our school, I have not found that AAP = more homework or more stress. My kids have very little homework. My older child is more "stressed" but he brings that on himself. It is not born out of any competition with his peers. My younger child is far less stressed (dare I say he could care quite a bit more about his schoolwork?). I'm encouraged that he is surrounded by peers in AAP who seem to care about school. That is helpful for him.

But the primary benefit I have observed at our school (and it may not be this way everywhere)-- is that in 1st and 2nd grade, I felt like the poor teachers spent 80% of their time and energy dealing with 1) kids who were really struggling academically; and/or 2) kids with discipline problems. That meant that my kids were spending 7 hours in school, and getting about 30 minutes worth of learning each day. In AAP, I think they're getting closer to 4 hours of honest to goodness "learning" each day. That makes it worth it for me.

To be fair to the teachers, in K-2 the students come in at such a wide range of abilities. Just getting down the basics of letter recognition, reading, numbers, social skills takes a lot of time and energy.

Around 2-3 grade is when it starts to even out. So although AAP offers a good structure, the 3rd grade GE classes are also taught and structured in a way that wasn't possible before.

Well, I'm very happy that you think now your kids (I love it how entire families are Advanced or Gifted, btw). But it does beg the question of why kids in GE who perhaps are also quick to catch onto things are left with the teachers who are too busy with kids who are struggling or discipline problems. Would seem to me that a super smart/advanced
AAP kid could still proceed on his/her own while the teacher was working with slower kids. It is difficult to see how a kid who is merely advanced but not gifted (as perhaps yours are) needs to be hot-housed in a special program at a separate school, when other kids are actually being held back in GE classes because the teachers are too busy to meet their needs.

So much entitlement. This whole system is screwed up. And I say that as a mom who has had kids in both AAP and GE.

NP here but how could your bolded statement be true? If the teacher doesn't do well at differentiating, then the child can't move at her own pace. She needs to wait to do what it assigned to everyone even if it is below her capabilities. The child doesn't provide differentiated lessons, after all.