Anonymous
10/21/2014 08:38
Subject: Re:Math in Private School
Our kids have had a great experience with the upper school math program at Sidwell. The older ones went on to major in STEM fields at a highly selective research university and were well-prepared by Sidwell for a demanding college curriculum. For the record, I'm not one of those Sidwell parents who thinks it's perfect, but we've been pleased with this aspect of the school.
Anonymous
10/21/2014 08:04
Subject: Re:Math in Private School
Anonymous wrote:And also, I agree with PP about math being the easiest program to implement whereas, the humanities, especially creative writing, being much more difficult. If STEM is your main concern, then you don't need a private school. Private schools are more focused on creating a well-rounded educational experience. Many of the "top" public schools that emphasize STEM produce math wizards who are utterly incapable of the critical thinking required for any type of leadership. Many are also incapable of putting together a decently written statement.
I am wondering how you know this.
Anonymous
10/21/2014 07:35
Subject: Re:Math in Private School
When we were looking at colleges (all STEM) the overall message we were given is that they did not care about the level of math (unless it was remedial math) that the child took as long as they have near perfect grades in math and their SAT scores were extremely high. They were not going to accept the AP credit anyway and that they did not trust the teaching of Calculus + at a HS level and those classes would need to be repeated.
Anonymous
10/21/2014 07:29
Subject: Math in Private School
Anonymous wrote:I've been an Ivy interviewer in this area for a while. The public STEM magnets are pretty far ahead. A few privates (GDS) have opportunities for linear algebra/multivariate calculus. At Blair or TJ, kids can go farther, sometimes much farther.
One of the biggest differences is in the encouragement of independent research projects. The magnets encourage this, they have a lot of fancy equipment, and they have pipelines to internships that can get kids started. Just look at their Intel and Siemens results. It's not unusual to interview a TJ or Blair kid who has published something as a second or third author. Even non magnet public schools in MoCo have lots of kids doing research projects, since so many of the parents work at NIH or NIST that they can find out about opportunities. Independent projects signal initiative, planning commitment etc., which are all qualities that selective colleges are seeking. They are a real advantage for kids at admissions time.
+1 We encountere this problem when DC applied from private to colleges for Computer Science. Even with excellent scores and a high GPA including AP's his record was no match for kdis coming from schools that had stronger coursework in Computer Science and projects and internships under their belts.
For those aiming for top STEM programs in college, it does make a difference. Yes DC can write and read well but the colleges did not seem to value that over the lack of STEM courses on DC's transcript (besides the requisite Chemistry, Bio and Physics)
Anonymous
10/21/2014 07:28
Subject: Math in Private School
NP. I'd certainly hope a math-science magnet would have more of a focus on math than any general education school, public or private. Otherwise, that would be a pretty piss poor magnet.
Anonymous
10/21/2014 07:02
Subject: Math in Private School
We left a top-tier, highly coveted DC private school for a top public school because of the seriously lacking math program at the private school, which of course was Every Day Math.
The switch from private to public for our kids has been the best decision we have made to date for our kids education.
The switch from private to public for our kids has been the best decision we have made to date for our kids education.
Anonymous
10/21/2014 01:30
Subject: Math in Private School
I've been an Ivy interviewer in this area for a while. The public STEM magnets are pretty far ahead. A few privates (GDS) have opportunities for linear algebra/multivariate calculus. At Blair or TJ, kids can go farther, sometimes much farther.
One of the biggest differences is in the encouragement of independent research projects. The magnets encourage this, they have a lot of fancy equipment, and they have pipelines to internships that can get kids started. Just look at their Intel and Siemens results. It's not unusual to interview a TJ or Blair kid who has published something as a second or third author. Even non magnet public schools in MoCo have lots of kids doing research projects, since so many of the parents work at NIH or NIST that they can find out about opportunities. Independent projects signal initiative, planning commitment etc., which are all qualities that selective colleges are seeking. They are a real advantage for kids at admissions time.
One of the biggest differences is in the encouragement of independent research projects. The magnets encourage this, they have a lot of fancy equipment, and they have pipelines to internships that can get kids started. Just look at their Intel and Siemens results. It's not unusual to interview a TJ or Blair kid who has published something as a second or third author. Even non magnet public schools in MoCo have lots of kids doing research projects, since so many of the parents work at NIH or NIST that they can find out about opportunities. Independent projects signal initiative, planning commitment etc., which are all qualities that selective colleges are seeking. They are a real advantage for kids at admissions time.
Anonymous
10/20/2014 23:07
Subject: Re:Math in Private School
Anonymous wrote:And also, I agree with PP about math being the easiest program to implement whereas, the humanities, especially creative writing, being much more difficult. If STEM is your main concern, then you don't need a private school. Private schools are more focused on creating a well-rounded educational experience. Many of the "top" public schools that emphasize STEM produce math wizards who are utterly incapable of the critical thinking required for any type of leadership. Many are also incapable of putting together a decently written statement.
The awards that many of the kids at the schools you disparage win require that kids be eminently capable of critical thinking and have the ability to put together a decently written statement. My mathy kid received no support for his interest in higher level math at his private school, but lots for his interest n humanities. Don't kid yourself. THe private school humanities vs. public magnet math and science trade off is real.
Anonymous
10/20/2014 22:58
Subject: Math in Private School
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Complaints about private school math programs are usually at the lower school level. There is often a preference for traditional approaches and as much acceleration as possible. If you take a long view, all the best students end up pretty much in the same place in high school, even if they don't go into STEM fields. So focusing too much on when a child learns the multiplication tables or starts algebra is kind of pointless.
I agree with this -- often too much acceleration in the early grades leads to even more "gaps" and difficulties in later math. Students who have depth and understanding and who are able to do more than just follow the algorithm/rules tend to do better when they get to truly higher level math.
Does Everyday Math lead to "depth and understanding"? Not necessarily. Does acceleration mean kids can only follow algorithms and rules? Not necessarily.
And how do you define "too much" acceleration? There's a lot of space between "no acceleration" and "too much" acceleration.
+100
Anonymous
10/20/2014 22:57
Subject: Re:Math in Private School
And also, I agree with PP about math being the easiest program to implement whereas, the humanities, especially creative writing, being much more difficult. If STEM is your main concern, then you don't need a private school. Private schools are more focused on creating a well-rounded educational experience. Many of the "top" public schools that emphasize STEM produce math wizards who are utterly incapable of the critical thinking required for any type of leadership. Many are also incapable of putting together a decently written statement.
Anonymous
10/20/2014 22:55
Subject: Math in Private School
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A common complaint among private school parents I've spoken to is that the math programs are a weak link. I hear this from those (like me) who are STEM professionals. Almost everyone is very happy with their schools as a whole, but the math programs at private schools do not seem to be on par with the top math programs in public schools (VA and MD).
I even heard that private school students use extensive outside tutoring because the math instruction is so weak. I don't want to mention names of the schools I've heard this about, but it includes most of those discussed most frequently here. I don't hear about a lot of private school kids heading to elite STEM schools such as MIT or Cal Tech, so I'm coming to the conclusion that private school isn't the best choice for a student interested in STEM.
No, it's not. Public STEM magnet is your answer if you have a kid at MIT/CalTech level.
I agree with this if you are in FCPS and, especially, if you have a shot at TJ.
Anonymous
10/20/2014 22:51
Subject: Re:Math in Private School
Our school, and most of the schools we toured, use EM as part of their program, but highly supplement it. I'm not aware of any schools that use straight-up EM anymore.
Anonymous
10/20/2014 22:35
Subject: Re:Math in Private School
Our LS does use EM but I have to confess, I don't have strong feelings feelings either way because it seems the math is getting in. I can't compare to where my DS wold be if they had some other curriculum.
I do sometimes consider supplementing, but only because I think kids often get labeled "smart" or not early and a little acceleration can grease that system. So far, we've opted for the philosophy that the well-trained teachers at our school know what they are doing, and not starting Kumon or what not. But I could easily be making the wrong choice - who knows.
I do sometimes consider supplementing, but only because I think kids often get labeled "smart" or not early and a little acceleration can grease that system. So far, we've opted for the philosophy that the well-trained teachers at our school know what they are doing, and not starting Kumon or what not. But I could easily be making the wrong choice - who knows.
Anonymous
10/20/2014 22:01
Subject: Math in Private School
Anonymous wrote:
For the proponents of acceleration, what level of math do you expect a high school to be able to teach? TJHSST and the selective privates don't have math classes beyond 2nd year college math classes(linear algebra, differential equations, numerical analysis) because it is essentially impossible to find high school teachers able to teach material beyond that level. As another poster noted, if everyone ends up in the same place in high school, why stress about what they could do in 3rd grade?
Do you feel the same way about reading? All students should be instructed at the same level, should read at the same level in class, and do the same reading comprehension work?
Anonymous
10/20/2014 21:53
Subject: Math in Private School
I don't really have any strong feelings about Everyday Math, but I am amazed by the obsession of some on this board who hate it so much. My DC went through with it without any apparent harm and Everyday Math games were useful in gaining simple math sense and facts without rote memorization. If Everyday Math manages to keep most students from hating math as a subject, it would be a big improvement over the old fashioned way.
For the proponents of acceleration, what level of math do you expect a high school to be able to teach? TJHSST and the selective privates don't have math classes beyond 2nd year college math classes(linear algebra, differential equations, numerical analysis) because it is essentially impossible to find high school teachers able to teach material beyond that level. As another poster noted, if everyone ends up in the same place in high school, why stress about what they could do in 3rd grade?
For the proponents of acceleration, what level of math do you expect a high school to be able to teach? TJHSST and the selective privates don't have math classes beyond 2nd year college math classes(linear algebra, differential equations, numerical analysis) because it is essentially impossible to find high school teachers able to teach material beyond that level. As another poster noted, if everyone ends up in the same place in high school, why stress about what they could do in 3rd grade?