Anonymous
09/27/2014 20:34
Subject: Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
Anonymous wrote:It is a common term in finance. I guess kind of annoying but it uses one word in place of several so I am okay with it.
How is the word "request" several?
The last time I got an "ask" from the PTA I threw the letter in the trash. Why do the sheep get bored with words so easily and feel the need to shuffle them up just to stay on topic?
Anonymous
09/27/2014 17:51
Subject: Re:Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
According to this piece ask has been used as a noun for over a thousand years....
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/those-irritating-verbs-as-nouns/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/those-irritating-verbs-as-nouns/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
Anonymous
09/26/2014 16:12
Subject: Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
In defense of "ask": I first heard it in the context of lobbying, and although it DOES make my skin crawl, it also serves the useful purpose of focusing on your goal, and the fact that when you contact a politician you better have one specific thing you are "asking" them to do. Breaking things down into "asks" kind of forces you to take action. On the other hand, if you just have a series of "asks" and no strategy, then you're equally screwed.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 16:10
Subject: Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
FruminousBandersnatch wrote:For the non-lawyers, the problem is that use of words in a non-standard manner can create ambiguity. While "ask" may be a term of art in some aspects of finance (e.g., "bid-ask"), using it generically as a noun in legal drafting may open the usage up to some argument about meaning. So, while it may sound pedantic for the lawyers to get snippy about casual usage of things like "ask," it can make a difference.
In contracts, grammar can make an enormous difference. There's a famous case where millions of dollars turned on the placement and interpretation of a comma (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/26/the_case_of_the_million_dollar_comma/). In that case, the placement of the comma determined when one party could terminate the contract.
Correct grammar and diction are essential for lawyers because of the potential for things like this.
I think the term "ask" is obnoxious (and I never heard it until a year ago, from a lobbyist type) but I seriously doubt there are any lawyers who are going to insert "ask" into a contract!
Anonymous
09/26/2014 16:01
Subject: Re:Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
Anonymous wrote:Why does it suck? I am a native speaker but saw this used in million dollar listing. I like how English is flexible you could never do this in my language.
I am *not* a native speaker...
Anonymous
09/26/2014 16:01
Subject: Re:Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
Why does it suck? I am a native speaker but saw this used in million dollar listing. I like how English is flexible you could never do this in my language.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 15:09
Subject: Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
Yes. It sucks. There is a perfectly good word, "request", that means exactly this.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 15:04
Subject: Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
I'm a lawyer who does some government relations work. I use it with certain people in a conversation or an informal email, but not in a letter or legal memo. It's called colloquialism.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 15:01
Subject: Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
I hate this too. DH just started using it and I was like noooooooo!
Anonymous
09/26/2014 14:59
Subject: Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
Anonymous wrote:I just reviewed a memo from a colleague that uses "ask" as a noun about 15 times. The memo is going to retail employees, too (relates to labor negotiations).
THIS SHIT MAKES MY SKIN CRAWL. I know this isn't limited to attorneys (plenty of dimwit mid-level manager types and financial people use this lingo too), but I have been noticing it more and more lately.
?
Provide an example.
FruminousBandersnatch
09/26/2014 12:04
Subject: Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
For the non-lawyers, the problem is that use of words in a non-standard manner can create ambiguity. While "ask" may be a term of art in some aspects of finance (e.g., "bid-ask"), using it generically as a noun in legal drafting may open the usage up to some argument about meaning. So, while it may sound pedantic for the lawyers to get snippy about casual usage of things like "ask," it can make a difference.
In contracts, grammar can make an enormous difference. There's a famous case where millions of dollars turned on the placement and interpretation of a comma (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/26/the_case_of_the_million_dollar_comma/). In that case, the placement of the comma determined when one party could terminate the contract.
Correct grammar and diction are essential for lawyers because of the potential for things like this.
In contracts, grammar can make an enormous difference. There's a famous case where millions of dollars turned on the placement and interpretation of a comma (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/26/the_case_of_the_million_dollar_comma/). In that case, the placement of the comma determined when one party could terminate the contract.
Correct grammar and diction are essential for lawyers because of the potential for things like this.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 11:35
Subject: Re:Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
Anonymous wrote:It's also really common in the lobbying or government relations field. I agree -- super annoying.
Also in fundraising. Of course. Yes I hate it too
Anonymous
09/26/2014 11:34
Subject: Re:Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
It's also really common in the lobbying or government relations field. I agree -- super annoying.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 11:29
Subject: Re:Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
This -- the ask -- doesn't really bother me, but last week a fellow lawyer sent around an email on our neighborhood listserv and used 's to make a plural. She posted the same message on the DCUM daycare forum, same 's to make a plural. It's still driving me crazy a week later.
Anonymous
09/26/2014 11:29
Subject: Any other lawyers sick pf people using "ask" as a noun?
I can see it being ok in finance, like the "ask price," but definitely not in law not pertaining to finance. It's not legally correct. It's either an offer, or a counter offer, or maybe someone might use it as a demand for payment but that would be even more of a misuse of the term.