Anonymous wrote:We're in 4th grade AAP and although I thought the first two weeks went slowly, this week we're in full swing and I'm very impressed. We had the back to school night last night and got a run down of how it's all going to work. Math will be strictly 5th grade math with some 6th at the end of the year. This week they're already full swing in Algebra and learning 2x + 3 = 9 type problems. English they're starting with middle school grammer - things I don't even recall ever learning in FCPS. The teacher stated the kids don't normally learn this at all but every child needs to learn how to write properly and wants them to learn the foundations now.

So all in all, where I was nervous about how robust the program is, we're off to a fabulous start. Homework is an hour per night but they did say that if your child is struggling and truly tried for an hour, you don't have to finish it.

Specials are weekly an hour each of: Music, Strings, Spanish, Art and PE. Library and Computers are 30 min every other week.

I did notice that our center had two 3rd grade classes last year of about 22-24 kids each and this year we're at 32 kids per class. They said 9 regular kids retested in and I guess the other half moved to the area??? not sure. I have heard some parents wondering if their kids should even be in the program. I guess time will tell to see how it all pans out.

And? Seem pretty typical that most classes at most sought after schools in FCPS are over 30 students, centers and non. You think that AAP kids (the advanced ones who supposedly learn so quickly and easily) deserve smaller classes? Best get over that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she not a strong reader and can't write why is she in AAP?

OP here. Very strong in math and logic and high on verbal skills. He is reading chapter books, but not great compared to some of the others. They don't just look for academics, but also personality.

Your original post refers to a daughter. Now its a son??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I don't know how a kid who is an average reader and "sucks" at writing got into AAP.

Dyslexia/dysgraphia?

I don't know about OP's kid, but my kid hates writing b/c he self-censors. He is truly stymied by the open-endedness of creative writing. He likes the linear fashion of math where there is a "right answer" that he is seeking. With writing, there is usually not a "right answer" and he is overwhelmed by that. He thinks he can't do writing... and part of it may be an attention deficit issue. He can't focus on the empty page and lack of structure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our school there's a group of LLIII kids who get taught advanced spelling, reading and/or math during the day who are not in AAP. Is this not happening at other schools?

Not at our school.

Not in our school either..

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I don't know how a kid who is an average reader and "sucks" at writing got into AAP.

Dyslexia/dysgraphia?

To the OP:

I think you're wise to see the red flags. The teacher's comments are only part of the picture -- as you yourself know that your child is an average to good reader, and "sucks" at writing. Honestly, I don't know how a kid who is an average reader and "sucks" at writing got into AAP. That seems like a major system breakdown to me (and I'm not trying to take a slap at you or your child). Did he/she get in on appeal? What kind of scores did he/she get?

The other poster was correct: Once your child is found eligible for Level IV services, they don't take that away. He/she will "stay" in AAP. But honestly, it sounds like your child may be better suited to Level III services (i.e., general education in language arts, and pull outs for AAP math).

My suspicion is that the teacher will outline her concerns, and give you a sense of what it will take for your child to be successful in AAP-level language arts. She may just give you the information and make your choice, or she may recommend that you voluntarily withdraw your child from AAP. Whatever she says, I hope you will listen. It may be that she is merely identifying that your child is behind a little in language arts, and needs some extra work to catch up. Or it might be that she says, "in order to succeed in this class, your child will need 2 hours of reading/writing work every night-- ask yourself if you really want to do that."

There is one child in my oldest's AAP class, who just simply doesn't belong there. He is a nice, lovely kid. But he is significantly behind in all subject areas. He survived 3rd grade, and now is in 4th -- and I just have to wonder if his parents realize what is going on. They may see an AAP kid. I see a kid who is getting his self-confidence wrecked. I think it is going to have a terrible toll on him some day.

AAP is not the be-all end-all. And the selection process if flawed. Take your teacher's comments seriously, but you as the parent get to make the final choice.

It's far easier to go with the flow (i.e. fit into the current system) then try to change the entire system. But, I agree with you -- there should be higher levels in the gen. ed. classroom. For us, it's an all or nothing situation. Either your kid goes to the center (where they may not be advanced in every category) or they stay at the base school where there is very little "advanced" work other than adv. math. And from what I've observed so far -- the teachers at the AAP center don't allow themselves as many excuses as the teachers at the base school (i.e. the AAP teachers ARE teaching cursive whereas the base school teachers say they don't have time for it but they let the kids watch movies every day for the last two weeks.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she not a strong reader and can't write why is she in AAP?

+1 They must have a low bar. So what does that say about AAP?

Agh! Not the case. Scored very high (without prepping) on Cogat in math and logic and has an extroverted independent personality.

I wonder why on earth AAP isn't spread out among all the kids. For instance, in Gen Ed there are lots of kids who excel at writing, reading, math, you name it. But because they aren't strong in all skills, they aren't in AAP. But it sounds like there are also kids in AAP who aren't strong at everything either. So why the need to segregate students into one group or another? Why not make "advanced" classes fluid, for all kids to be able to excel at their strengths? The current system is so out of whack.

Good question. I'm the PP with the kid who is good in math/logic/reading but not writing... ironically, my older child who excels in writing and reading, but not quite as strong in math just missed the cut off for the AAP pool. Older child went through a rough patch initially with adv. math at the base school in 3rd grade, but now has settled into it (it was also ironic that she was even placed into adv. math when it was the math/nnat scores that kept her OUT of AAP -- but that's the only "advanced" class offered at the base school, so that's where they put her). Now we wonder if older child might have been a better fit for the full AAP curriculum based on the writing requirements (even though younger child tested better)!

If they aren't going to better match adv. classes to kids' abilities, it would be nice if the screening tests better assessed the skills needed for the curriculum.

Same situation with my child. Math is his weaker subject, so just missed qualifying for AAP. Seems very strange that there are kids in AAP who clearly have trouble with one subject or another, and there are other kids in Gen Ed who excel in all but one area. It is simply not necessary to divide up these kids. They're too similar.

I used to share your same opinion but, being a seasoned elementary school parent with multiple kids, and, not having an AAP center child but multiple high achievers in GE, I do see a need for most of the children being sent to the AAP center to be there, especially 2E children. This is why, they learn differently - not "smarterly" differently and most need the special accommodations to assist in their success that they are not given in a GE school. Most of the GE kids thrive just fine in the standard learning environment they "fit" there and are successful. The problems arise when children who would be just fine in the standard learning environment are being sent to the AAP center. It pisses parents off and is detrimental to the high achieving GE child because learning peers are being removed from their classrooms. This is why it pisses parents off, the center children are given automatic advanced academics, and, are given opportunities for an advanced curriculum that many high achieving GE students could benefit from. AAP levels II and III are not adequately providing this because there is simply not enough "AAP teacher" to go around for the amount of children who could benefit. And, the blanket label that only AAP center kids are advanced learners is simply not true. Therefore an advanced curriculum needs to be addressed at the classroom level in all GE schools.

So, I do see a need for the AAP center for some children especially 2E children.
I do not agree with the blanket label that all AAP center kids are "advanced" learners.
I see a need for the advanced curriculum to be spread into the GE curriculum so that all children have the same opportunities to thrive to their highest abilities with or without the AAP center.
Levels II and III need to be eliminated and the advanced program addressed in all GE classrooms.
I think that after the elementary school AAP center program children should be placed in the AAP middle school program by their teachers - not by the county assumption that they all belong there.

So all of you non-AAP center parents out there, the GE schools in Fairfax county are great, could they improve, absolutely. Instead of fighting for your smart child to be in the AAP centers, unite in a fight for changes to the GE schools to get advanced opportunities to all Fairfax county students.

Anonymous wrote:Lots of kids have 'red flags' Dont move back, yet. Too early. Teachers want kids to all fit in the crayon box, and when one doesn't, they call a conference.

Lots of AAP kids are 2E - in reply to above poster

Yes and 2E kids really need to be in AAP - no sarcasm here

Anonymous wrote:At our school there's a group of LLIII kids who get taught advanced spelling, reading and/or math during the day who are not in AAP. Is this not happening at other schools?

Not at our school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she not a strong reader and can't write why is she in AAP?

+1 They must have a low bar. So what does that say about AAP?

Agh! Not the case. Scored very high (without prepping) on Cogat in math and logic and has an extroverted independent personality.

I wonder why on earth AAP isn't spread out among all the kids. For instance, in Gen Ed there are lots of kids who excel at writing, reading, math, you name it. But because they aren't strong in all skills, they aren't in AAP. But it sounds like there are also kids in AAP who aren't strong at everything either. So why the need to segregate students into one group or another? Why not make "advanced" classes fluid, for all kids to be able to excel at their strengths? The current system is so out of whack.

That is how the LLIV is run at my DC's elementary school.

We're in 4th grade AAP and although I thought the first two weeks went slowly, this week we're in full swing and I'm very impressed. We had the back to school night last night and got a run down of how it's all going to work. Math will be strictly 5th grade math with some 6th at the end of the year. This week they're already full swing in Algebra and learning 2x + 3 = 9 type problems. English they're starting with middle school grammer - things I don't even recall ever learning in FCPS. The teacher stated the kids don't normally learn this at all but every child needs to learn how to write properly and wants them to learn the foundations now.

So all in all, where I was nervous about how robust the program is, we're off to a fabulous start. Homework is an hour per night but they did say that if your child is struggling and truly tried for an hour, you don't have to finish it.

Specials are weekly an hour each of: Music, Strings, Spanish, Art and PE. Library and Computers are 30 min every other week.

I did notice that our center had two 3rd grade classes last year of about 22-24 kids each and this year we're at 32 kids per class. They said 9 regular kids retested in and I guess the other half moved to the area??? not sure. I have heard some parents wondering if their kids should even be in the program. I guess time will tell to see how it all pans out.

Anonymous wrote:Only two weeks into school and already received a conference with teacher for "seeing some red flags with DD reading and writing and would like to discuss concerns and come up with solutions." She's never been a strong reader, but average at worst. Her writing does truly suck. Either they're really on top of things and want to help (great) or he's gonna get booted (not so great). Don't know why I'm so nervous and imagining the worst. Anyone else BTDT?

She may be seeing signs of LD, if she hints at it, formally ask for an evaluation. (Read up in wrightslaw.com for more information about how to request one) This is not a reason to remove her from AAP, there are children with LDs in AAP.

At our school there's a group of LLIII kids who get taught advanced spelling, reading and/or math during the day who are not in AAP. Is this not happening at other schools?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she not a strong reader and can't write why is she in AAP?

+1 They must have a low bar. So what does that say about AAP?

Agh! Not the case. Scored very high (without prepping) on Cogat in math and logic and has an extroverted independent personality.

I wonder why on earth AAP isn't spread out among all the kids. For instance, in Gen Ed there are lots of kids who excel at writing, reading, math, you name it. But because they aren't strong in all skills, they aren't in AAP. But it sounds like there are also kids in AAP who aren't strong at everything either. So why the need to segregate students into one group or another? Why not make "advanced" classes fluid, for all kids to be able to excel at their strengths? The current system is so out of whack.

Good question. I'm the PP with the kid who is good in math/logic/reading but not writing... ironically, my older child who excels in writing and reading, but not quite as strong in math just missed the cut off for the AAP pool. Older child went through a rough patch initially with adv. math at the base school in 3rd grade, but now has settled into it (it was also ironic that she was even placed into adv. math when it was the math/nnat scores that kept her OUT of AAP -- but that's the only "advanced" class offered at the base school, so that's where they put her). Now we wonder if older child might have been a better fit for the full AAP curriculum based on the writing requirements (even though younger child tested better)!

If they aren't going to better match adv. classes to kids' abilities, it would be nice if the screening tests better assessed the skills needed for the curriculum.

Same situation with my child. Math is his weaker subject, so just missed qualifying for AAP. Seems very strange that there are kids in AAP who clearly have trouble with one subject or another, and there are other kids in Gen Ed who excel in all but one area. It is simply not necessary to divide up these kids. They're too similar.