Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 16:44     Subject: Re:Counsel salary?
Anonymous wrote:For an of counsel with zero book who is relying completely on others to be profitable to the firm, you should be very careful about asking for or getting a salary that is at the upper bounds for counsels at your firm. It can backfire. The higher the salary, the more attention there will be to the fact that you are a counsel with no book if it turns out that others aren't feeding you the work you or the firm expected (and there are lots of reasons that this often happens, many relate to the self-interest of the people generating the work). In this environment where big law is trying to increase profitability in a shrinking pool of work, a counsel with no book is expendable regardless of how specialized and in demand you are. Your billing rate isn't totally irrelevant because the higher it is, the less hours you need to be profitable to the firm, but it is a secondary consideration. The most important thing for you to figure out is what is the salary that will put you in the middle of the pack among peers with the same profitability you can reasonably expect the first two or so years given your situation. Once you have a track record and are solidly attached to a rainmaker who considers you critical to maintaining his/her practice (or have developed your own clients), then you can get aggressive with negotiating a salary that reflects your specialization and how much you actually are in demand.


Yes.

I'd much rather go on the low end for salary and keep expectations both ways in check, and hope that good work &c. would show up on the back side via a bonus.

Either way you're a high priced wage slave selling something -- your time is your "inventory" --- that you can never make more of.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 16:42     Subject: Counsel salary?
Anonymous wrote:$300-350k. About 1/4 of what you bring in.


Yes, my take, too, for 2000 hrs I was going to guesstimate $320-360k.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 16:33     Subject: Re:Counsel salary?
I'm amazed there are clients that re willing to spend that much per hour for a non-partner's time
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 15:45     Subject: Re:Counsel salary?
I'm PP. I also want to add that I don't think a fed clerkship means much at this level unless it was a coveted appellate clerkship or higher and you are a litigator. I also had a federal clerkship but didn't think of it as giving me a bump at all wrt salary.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 15:41     Subject: Re:Counsel salary?
I just left the govt after 8 years to return to biglaw as counsel. Very in demand practice area. I received 3 offers between 300 and 350. All would have been for about 1850 billable hours a year. All also would have been bonus eligible but nothing guaranteed. I ditto the others who said that if you have no expectation for bringing in business you're about in the range I would expect. You really are just a service attorney and shouldn't get paid as much as someone who has the pressure of finding clients.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 15:10     Subject: Re:Counsel salary?
Anonymous wrote:For an of counsel with zero book who is relying completely on others to be profitable to the firm, you should be very careful about asking for or getting a salary that is at the upper bounds for counsels at your firm. It can backfire. The higher the salary, the more attention there will be to the fact that you are a counsel with no book if it turns out that others aren't feeding you the work you or the firm expected (and there are lots of reasons that this often happens, many relate to the self-interest of the people generating the work). In this environment where big law is trying to increase profitability in a shrinking pool of work, a counsel with no book is expendable regardless of how specialized and in demand you are. Your billing rate isn't totally irrelevant because the higher it is, the less hours you need to be profitable to the firm, but it is a secondary consideration. The most important thing for you to figure out is what is the salary that will put you in the middle of the pack among peers with the same profitability you can reasonably expect the first two or so years given your situation. Once you have a track record and are solidly attached to a rainmaker who considers you critical to maintaining his/her practice (or have developed your own clients), then you can get aggressive with negotiating a salary that reflects your specialization and how much you actually are in demand.


+1
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 14:19     Subject: Counsel salary?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm at $650K, counsel. Bill just over 1800 hours. Negotiate!

Wow. My DH is general counsel in a public company and that's 80 % more than what he makes. He travels constantly and is always on call nights and weekends.


Your DH should be making a million a year.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 14:16     Subject: Re:Counsel salary?
For an of counsel with zero book who is relying completely on others to be profitable to the firm, you should be very careful about asking for or getting a salary that is at the upper bounds for counsels at your firm. It can backfire. The higher the salary, the more attention there will be to the fact that you are a counsel with no book if it turns out that others aren't feeding you the work you or the firm expected (and there are lots of reasons that this often happens, many relate to the self-interest of the people generating the work). In this environment where big law is trying to increase profitability in a shrinking pool of work, a counsel with no book is expendable regardless of how specialized and in demand you are. Your billing rate isn't totally irrelevant because the higher it is, the less hours you need to be profitable to the firm, but it is a secondary consideration. The most important thing for you to figure out is what is the salary that will put you in the middle of the pack among peers with the same profitability you can reasonably expect the first two or so years given your situation. Once you have a track record and are solidly attached to a rainmaker who considers you critical to maintaining his/her practice (or have developed your own clients), then you can get aggressive with negotiating a salary that reflects your specialization and how much you actually are in demand.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 11:39     Subject: Counsel salary?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm at $650K, counsel. Bill just over 1800 hours. Negotiate!

Wow. My DH is general counsel in a public company and that's 80 % more than what he makes. He travels constantly and is always on call nights and weekends.


General counsel and the "of counsel" that OP is talking about aren't the same thing.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 11:36     Subject: Counsel salary?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm at $650K, counsel. Bill just over 1800 hours. Negotiate!

Wow. My DH is general counsel in a public company and that's 80 % more than what he makes. He travels constantly and is always on call nights and weekends.


Stock options?
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 11:18     Subject: Counsel salary?
Anonymous wrote:I'm at $650K, counsel. Bill just over 1800 hours. Negotiate!

Wow. My DH is general counsel in a public company and that's 80 % more than what he makes. He travels constantly and is always on call nights and weekends.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 11:15     Subject: Re:Counsel salary?
I make $260, including bonus, working about 35 hours a week. You should definitely make more than 320 if you're billing that much.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 09:45     Subject: Counsel salary?
I'm at $650K, counsel. Bill just over 1800 hours. Negotiate!
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 08:38     Subject: Re:Counsel salary?
Anonymous wrote:I agree and I was wondering if anyone with insight into the number crunching could tell me what salary they would expect at this level and billing rate. I am highly specialized and in demand. I chose a counsel position for lifestyle reasons and it is working out very well. However, I need to negotiate salary for next year and I wanted to get others' opinions. I bill around 2,000 hours. Current salary is 320k plus bonus, but I got the feeling from two partners that they were surprised I did not ask for more.


I would try to go for a 10-15% raise for next year then. That would put you between $350-370k plus bonus. 2,000 hours is a lot for counsel to bill, IMHO (I'm an admin at a law firm). What's your realization rate (how much of what you bill actually gets paid out by clients)?
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2014 08:07     Subject: Counsel salary?
$300-350k. About 1/4 of what you bring in.