Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is said is important too. For me, yelling is about volume. If you are just raising your voice but not saying mean and derogatory things, it is different. If you are lowering your voice butt saying mean and derogatory things, then that is harmful.

You sound like a yeller.

I think there is some point to this. If you yell "I told you to do xyz"! That's not the same as one hour of yelling at a kid for a simple "kid" thing.

If I calmly say "You are stupid." That's pretty damaging.

But why do you need to raise your voice for that? Because you want them to know how angry you are? How is that helpful? Also maybe an adult can see the distinction but a child is much less likely to.

Yelling isn't only anger.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is said is important too. For me, yelling is about volume. If you are just raising your voice but not saying mean and derogatory things, it is different. If you are lowering your voice butt saying mean and derogatory things, then that is harmful.

You sound like a yeller.

I think there is some point to this. If you yell "I told you to do xyz"! That's not the same as one hour of yelling at a kid for a simple "kid" thing.

If I calmly say "You are stupid." That's pretty damaging.

But why do you need to raise your voice for that? Because you want them to know how angry you are? How is that helpful? Also maybe an adult can see the distinction but a child is much less likely to.

Yelling isn't only anger.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a yelling household and I don't really mind it. (?) Shrug. I am kind of a yeller too and don't really rein myself in, b/c I don't really feel I was that affected by it on the other end, when I was a child?

It bothers me MORE when people do NOT get their emotions out and just keep a situation bottled in. I think it's better to deal with a situation, get over it, and move on. It bothers me in my DH's family when everyone is passive-aggressive and never raises an issue directly. But it's absolutely there, and everyone knows it, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out the dynamic where no one will do anything about it. It REALLY makes me uncomfortable. I feel like I walk around keeping my lips closed and I feel words just ready to spill out of my mouth, b/c I am soo unused to this dynamic.

My DH is like you and I am like your DH, from a family that interacts more passive-aggressively. While suppressing your feelings is not great, what he doesn't get about his style is that "letting it out" is not all that healthy either. Research makes clear that the "pressure" model of emotions--release the valve, reduce the emotion--is not accurate. by letting the emotion wash over you you are reinforcing it. Example, DH yells at other drivers a lot, and he does not see how it just makes him angrier to focus on giving in to the feeling.

I actually think that marriages like ours have the potential to be very healthy, as we can teach each other the value of a different approach to anger. I know DH's attitude has helped me deal more productively with my family's passive aggression.

PP back. Yes, I would agree. I think both DH and I have moved a LITTLE bit closer to the mean, after 10 years of being married to each other. He is a lot more direct at home, within our own family. And I do try to give myself some time to reflect and not just immediately react. But when he's with his original family, he reverts back to their original style and this makes me a little frustrated b/c when we are visiting them, I feel lonely like he's completely turned into a diff. person than the one I married. But, I try to be less outspoken when I visit them, b/c I realize, actually, I'm just the in-law, so I just have to merge in and go with whatever flow they have going on. Shrug.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a yelling household and I don't really mind it. (?) Shrug. I am kind of a yeller too and don't really rein myself in, b/c I don't really feel I was that affected by it on the other end, when I was a child?

It bothers me MORE when people do NOT get their emotions out and just keep a situation bottled in. I think it's better to deal with a situation, get over it, and move on. It bothers me in my DH's family when everyone is passive-aggressive and never raises an issue directly. But it's absolutely there, and everyone knows it, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out the dynamic where no one will do anything about it. It REALLY makes me uncomfortable. I feel like I walk around keeping my lips closed and I feel words just ready to spill out of my mouth, b/c I am soo unused to this dynamic.

OP here again. I agree with you, but in my case, I went through a period where I had trouble with conflicts and always felt like I did something wrong. Even having a boss say he or she needed to talk to me caused a sense of dread because I always felt I was wrong and the cause of something awful (back to the we only do this because you didn't do XYZ and we care so much about you, if you'd only do XYZ...)

I always felt like my parents were passive-aggressive with the people they really needed to fight hard with and reserved the real emotion-- the yelling and berating-- for the kids, the ones who couldn't walk away or fire them.

Bingo! I agree. I think that in those instances, the parents are essentially deeply unhappy with some aspect of their lives, but it's an area where they have no control or influence (or little control), so because they feel they can't do anything about that area of their lives, it all comes out on the one area they do control: their family/children.

10:37 back. I agree too. The strange combination of yelling at home, but not dealing with directly out of the home, seems like it has the potential to be the most damaging. I am sorry you and/or your siblings (OP) had to deal with this and I commend you on recognizing that it was kind of off.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a yelling household and I don't really mind it. (?) Shrug. I am kind of a yeller too and don't really rein myself in, b/c I don't really feel I was that affected by it on the other end, when I was a child?

It bothers me MORE when people do NOT get their emotions out and just keep a situation bottled in. I think it's better to deal with a situation, get over it, and move on. It bothers me in my DH's family when everyone is passive-aggressive and never raises an issue directly. But it's absolutely there, and everyone knows it, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out the dynamic where no one will do anything about it. It REALLY makes me uncomfortable. I feel like I walk around keeping my lips closed and I feel words just ready to spill out of my mouth, b/c I am soo unused to this dynamic.

My DH is like you and I am like your DH, from a family that interacts more passive-aggressively. While suppressing your feelings is not great, what he doesn't get about his style is that "letting it out" is not all that healthy either. Research makes clear that the "pressure" model of emotions--release the valve, reduce the emotion--is not accurate. by letting the emotion wash over you you are reinforcing it. Example, DH yells at other drivers a lot, and he does not see how it just makes him angrier to focus on giving in to the feeling.

I actually think that marriages like ours have the potential to be very healthy, as we can teach each other the value of a different approach to anger. I know DH's attitude has helped me deal more productively with my family's passive aggression.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a yelling household and I don't really mind it. (?) Shrug. I am kind of a yeller too and don't really rein myself in, b/c I don't really feel I was that affected by it on the other end, when I was a child?

It bothers me MORE when people do NOT get their emotions out and just keep a situation bottled in. I think it's better to deal with a situation, get over it, and move on. It bothers me in my DH's family when everyone is passive-aggressive and never raises an issue directly. But it's absolutely there, and everyone knows it, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out the dynamic where no one will do anything about it. It REALLY makes me uncomfortable. I feel like I walk around keeping my lips closed and I feel words just ready to spill out of my mouth, b/c I am soo unused to this dynamic.

OP here again. I agree with you, but in my case, I went through a period where I had trouble with conflicts and always felt like I did something wrong. Even having a boss say he or she needed to talk to me caused a sense of dread because I always felt I was wrong and the cause of something awful (back to the we only do this because you didn't do XYZ and we care so much about you, if you'd only do XYZ...)

I always felt like my parents were passive-aggressive with the people they really needed to fight hard with and reserved the real emotion-- the yelling and berating-- for the kids, the ones who couldn't walk away or fire them.

Bingo! I agree. I think that in those instances, the parents are essentially deeply unhappy with some aspect of their lives, but it's an area where they have no control or influence (or little control), so because they feel they can't do anything about that area of their lives, it all comes out on the one area they do control: their family/children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a yelling household and I don't really mind it. (?) Shrug. I am kind of a yeller too and don't really rein myself in, b/c I don't really feel I was that affected by it on the other end, when I was a child?

It bothers me MORE when people do NOT get their emotions out and just keep a situation bottled in. I think it's better to deal with a situation, get over it, and move on. It bothers me in my DH's family when everyone is passive-aggressive and never raises an issue directly. But it's absolutely there, and everyone knows it, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out the dynamic where no one will do anything about it. It REALLY makes me uncomfortable. I feel like I walk around keeping my lips closed and I feel words just ready to spill out of my mouth, b/c I am soo unused to this dynamic.

OP here again. I agree with you, but in my case, I went through a period where I had trouble with conflicts and always felt like I did something wrong. Even having a boss say he or she needed to talk to me caused a sense of dread because I always felt I was wrong and the cause of something awful (back to the we only do this because you didn't do XYZ and we care so much about you, if you'd only do XYZ...)

I always felt like my parents were passive-aggressive with the people they really needed to fight hard with and reserved the real emotion-- the yelling and berating-- for the kids, the ones who couldn't walk away or fire them.

Huh. Ok, I hear ya. That is an interesting dichotomy you are laying out here, so I kind of see what you are saying. That would affect one, I can see, if one were growing up under that strange combination of attitudes towards conflict.

PS PP back. The funny thing is, in DH's family (who grew up keeping everything in), the two brothers married women (SIL and me) who are quite direct, vocal, etc. So SIL and I get along really, really well. We often call each other and hash out recent family dynamics, analyze them, vent to each other, and move on. But the rest of the family (MIL, FIL, DH's sister) are all still in that original family dynamic. The two "sides' don't really get each other's way of dealing with things AT ALL. And I am sur ethey are equally frustrated as SIL and I are.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a house with a lot of yelling, either at me or at other members. But, I have to keep in my some things:

1. Parents 30+ yrs ago didn't have as many resources as we do today regarding the "right" way to parent, and the negative impacts of certain things. Remember, in the 60's, 70's, pregnancy books stated to smoke to relax, or drink a glass of wine. Those were definitely different times.
2. Regardless of whether your parents yelled at you, I think most parents do love their kids. parents are not perfect, today or back then.

It's hard to break a cycle; it's hard to break the culture. If that's how your parents grew up, if that was the social norm back then, then they won't ever see it the way you do.

I have to just remember that my parents did the best they could with what they had. This isn't to excuse this kind of behavior. Rather, it's for me to remember that no parent is perfect, including me, and I'm learning to be a better parent as I go along. Wouldn't it be great if we were all perfect parents from day 1? But it doesn't happen that way.

It's good you recognize how it affected you and that you don't want to repeat it. This is where the cycle can be broken.

NP. eh, I disagree with the notion that "parents back then didn't know any better." I think that's an excuse, even though you say it doesn't excuse the behavior. That explanation suggests that somehow it's worse for a parent today to yell than it was for a parent back then because we should know better. And I don't agree.

I think that the biggest issue (and I have some experience with this as well) that OP raises is the twofold issue that the parents yelled a lot BUT also insist they did everything for their kids and were some kind of martyrs. I would feel differently if most parents who behaved that way would admit that their behavior was detrimental, that it was more indicative of weakness than martyrdom and sacrifice and that it was more about them and their own issues than any kind of special parenting tactic.

Part of the reason why it's hard to "break the culture" is that we keep explaining it away and feeding the narrative that they "did the best they could." Instead, we should say, nope, they didn't do the best they could. They refused to recognize that they were dysfunctional, that they created a turbulent environment, and that they didn't practice enough self-restraint. Instead, we write it off as "that's how it was back then."

I get tired of the "I gave everything for my kids" narrative when in most of those instances. First of all, it feeds the whole parenting as martyrdom model, which isn't good. I don't think that parents should define themselves by or through their children. It seems that one common theme among functional families, where there isn't constant, daily yelling or turbulence, is that the parents have hobbies and interests outside of their kids. And because they don't have their entire identity invested in their kids, they're actually able to be better parents. They're happier, more even-keeled and less reactive. The family unit and the children don't become this tightly controlled entity that breaks with every slight issue that arises.

But also I suspect that most of that yelling wasn't about OP or her siblings. It was about the parents' issues, and that needs to be recognized if the cycle/culture is ever going to change.

Just my thoughts on that issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a yelling household and I don't really mind it. (?) Shrug. I am kind of a yeller too and don't really rein myself in, b/c I don't really feel I was that affected by it on the other end, when I was a child?

It bothers me MORE when people do NOT get their emotions out and just keep a situation bottled in. I think it's better to deal with a situation, get over it, and move on. It bothers me in my DH's family when everyone is passive-aggressive and never raises an issue directly. But it's absolutely there, and everyone knows it, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out the dynamic where no one will do anything about it. It REALLY makes me uncomfortable. I feel like I walk around keeping my lips closed and I feel words just ready to spill out of my mouth, b/c I am soo unused to this dynamic.

OP here again. I agree with you, but in my case, I went through a period where I had trouble with conflicts and always felt like I did something wrong. Even having a boss say he or she needed to talk to me caused a sense of dread because I always felt I was wrong and the cause of something awful (back to the we only do this because you didn't do XYZ and we care so much about you, if you'd only do XYZ...)

I always felt like my parents were passive-aggressive with the people they really needed to fight hard with and reserved the real emotion-- the yelling and berating-- for the kids, the ones who couldn't walk away or fire them.

Huh. Ok, I hear ya. That is an interesting dichotomy you are laying out here, so I kind of see what you are saying. That would affect one, I can see, if one were growing up under that strange combination of attitudes towards conflict.

The key to damaging yelling vs being loud is the emotion behind it. If I modulate my voice to be heard over a din, I may be shouting, but if I do it because I'm frustrated that nobody is listening to me, I am yelling. And the latter kind of yelling teaches that it's OK to let your emotions spill out and harm your loved ones. DH's family are big yellers, he hated it, and so when he raises his voice in anger and I ask him to stop yelling and he says "THIS isn't yelling," I point out that it's the emotion that is making the impact, not the volume.

Sorry for how you were raised OP, hope you can create something better for your family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We yell because we love you is complete and utter bullshit!

As is the argue and make up cycle.

DW was raised like this, I was not. As a result her behavior often veers into unacceptable tone and language and it has damaged our relationship, at times to the point where I've told her it must stop or I am done.

Where one who is conditioned by the fight & make up cycle can handle that or look forward to the "making up" part, to others (like me) who weren't raised that way and don't accept the yelling &c., it's just more grains of sand on the pile of negativity that will eventually topple the relationship.

I think DW has realized it to some extent but not fully. Now, rather than engage, if she goes there I just shut her down and tell her I'm disengaging. And I make it clear that I'm not re-engaging as part of the "make up" portion -- that she has to take responsibility, change the behavior, and not assume that it's all OK because it's the next day and she's being nice now.

Sorry I don't have a book to refer you to but good luck getting rid of the toxic approach that this represents.

OP here. My DH did not come from a house where his parents yelled at him so I think he'd be out the door if I behaved the way my parents did. My parents yelled at each other a lot. It was as if they had no problem-solving skills so rather than take a deep breath and figure out how to fix something simply, they verbally thrashed about. Maybe they would have called it their "arguing style;" whatever the heck it was, I could hear each word loud and clear from another floor.

In response to other comments, the yelling I grew up with was not, "Come on kids, let's go! Get your shoes on NOW! We have to leave!" It was an endless slew of accusation and character assassination either toward me and my siblings are my mother toward my father.

Well those are 2 different things. That's what some of the PPs (including me) were trying to say. But even saying "you are stupid" in a calm manner is damaging too. So, it's what a parent says, either in a calm or yelling manner, that matters most. A blanket "yelling is abusive" statement is not true.

OP here. I got that as well. A calm, "you're going to be alone for the rest of your life," "you're your own worst enemy," "aren't you embarrassed for yourself? There's something wrong with you." Not everything was shouted. Those lines usually came after the yelling as part of the more toned down lecture while being forced to sit on the couch for a while.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a yelling household and I don't really mind it. (?) Shrug. I am kind of a yeller too and don't really rein myself in, b/c I don't really feel I was that affected by it on the other end, when I was a child?

It bothers me MORE when people do NOT get their emotions out and just keep a situation bottled in. I think it's better to deal with a situation, get over it, and move on. It bothers me in my DH's family when everyone is passive-aggressive and never raises an issue directly. But it's absolutely there, and everyone knows it, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out the dynamic where no one will do anything about it. It REALLY makes me uncomfortable. I feel like I walk around keeping my lips closed and I feel words just ready to spill out of my mouth, b/c I am soo unused to this dynamic.

OP here again. I agree with you, but in my case, I went through a period where I had trouble with conflicts and always felt like I did something wrong. Even having a boss say he or she needed to talk to me caused a sense of dread because I always felt I was wrong and the cause of something awful (back to the we only do this because you didn't do XYZ and we care so much about you, if you'd only do XYZ...)

I always felt like my parents were passive-aggressive with the people they really needed to fight hard with and reserved the real emotion-- the yelling and berating-- for the kids, the ones who couldn't walk away or fire them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We yell because we love you is complete and utter bullshit!

As is the argue and make up cycle.

DW was raised like this, I was not. As a result her behavior often veers into unacceptable tone and language and it has damaged our relationship, at times to the point where I've told her it must stop or I am done.

Where one who is conditioned by the fight & make up cycle can handle that or look forward to the "making up" part, to others (like me) who weren't raised that way and don't accept the yelling &c., it's just more grains of sand on the pile of negativity that will eventually topple the relationship.

I think DW has realized it to some extent but not fully. Now, rather than engage, if she goes there I just shut her down and tell her I'm disengaging. And I make it clear that I'm not re-engaging as part of the "make up" portion -- that she has to take responsibility, change the behavior, and not assume that it's all OK because it's the next day and she's being nice now.

Sorry I don't have a book to refer you to but good luck getting rid of the toxic approach that this represents.

OP here. My DH did not come from a house where his parents yelled at him so I think he'd be out the door if I behaved the way my parents did. My parents yelled at each other a lot. It was as if they had no problem-solving skills so rather than take a deep breath and figure out how to fix something simply, they verbally thrashed about. Maybe they would have called it their "arguing style;" whatever the heck it was, I could hear each word loud and clear from another floor.

In response to other comments, the yelling I grew up with was not, "Come on kids, let's go! Get your shoes on NOW! We have to leave!" It was an endless slew of accusation and character assassination either toward me and my siblings are my mother toward my father.

Well those are 2 different things. That's what some of the PPs (including me) were trying to say. But even saying "you are stupid" in a calm manner is damaging too. So, it's what a parent says, either in a calm or yelling manner, that matters most. A blanket "yelling is abusive" statement is not true.

Anonymous wrote:We yell because we love you is complete and utter bullshit!

As is the argue and make up cycle.

DW was raised like this, I was not. As a result her behavior often veers into unacceptable tone and language and it has damaged our relationship, at times to the point where I've told her it must stop or I am done.

Where one who is conditioned by the fight & make up cycle can handle that or look forward to the "making up" part, to others (like me) who weren't raised that way and don't accept the yelling &c., it's just more grains of sand on the pile of negativity that will eventually topple the relationship.

I think DW has realized it to some extent but not fully. Now, rather than engage, if she goes there I just shut her down and tell her I'm disengaging. And I make it clear that I'm not re-engaging as part of the "make up" portion -- that she has to take responsibility, change the behavior, and not assume that it's all OK because it's the next day and she's being nice now.

Sorry I don't have a book to refer you to but good luck getting rid of the toxic approach that this represents.

OP here. My DH did not come from a house where his parents yelled at him so I think he'd be out the door if I behaved the way my parents did. My parents yelled at each other a lot. It was as if they had no problem-solving skills so rather than take a deep breath and figure out how to fix something simply, they verbally thrashed about. Maybe they would have called it their "arguing style;" whatever the heck it was, I could hear each word loud and clear from another floor.

In response to other comments, the yelling I grew up with was not, "Come on kids, let's go! Get your shoes on NOW! We have to leave!" It was an endless slew of accusation and character assassination either toward me and my siblings are my mother toward my father.

I grew up in a yelling household and I don't really mind it. (?) Shrug. I am kind of a yeller too and don't really rein myself in, b/c I don't really feel I was that affected by it on the other end, when I was a child?

It bothers me MORE when people do NOT get their emotions out and just keep a situation bottled in. I think it's better to deal with a situation, get over it, and move on. It bothers me in my DH's family when everyone is passive-aggressive and never raises an issue directly. But it's absolutely there, and everyone knows it, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out the dynamic where no one will do anything about it. It REALLY makes me uncomfortable. I feel like I walk around keeping my lips closed and I feel words just ready to spill out of my mouth, b/c I am soo unused to this dynamic.