Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also a non-believer. I'm curious about what it means to "glorify God" -- does that simply mean living your best life and caring for others/the planet? Or is it about religious ritual -- praying and going to church and tithing?

By believing in the gift of his Son and following his Son you acknowledge his will and plan. Jesus said "you are either for me or against me". I believe your eternal condition depends on that decision.

Can you show me where this is " Jesus said "you are either for me or against me"."

Matthew 12:30
Luke 11:23

Well clearly he was a dick then.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In Europe, churches are being refashioned as arts centers and in the US, some are being turned in to condos and bars. The will to believe is still there, but it's evolving away from organized, dogmatic religion and that is a good thing.

What you're describing is the hollowing out of our center cities. Many new churches are being built every day, especially in the burbs, or in store fronts.

really? "every day?" How does that square with declining church membership across the country?

Plus, here in DC - the population is growing, but church attendance is not.

Anonymous wrote:
In Europe, churches are being refashioned as arts centers and in the US, some are being turned in to condos and bars. The will to believe is still there, but it's evolving away from organized, dogmatic religion and that is a good thing.

What you're describing is the hollowing out of our center cities. Many new churches are being built every day, especially in the burbs, or in store fronts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also a non-believer. I'm curious about what it means to "glorify God" -- does that simply mean living your best life and caring for others/the planet? Or is it about religious ritual -- praying and going to church and tithing?

By believing in the gift of his Son and following his Son you acknowledge his will and plan. Jesus said "you are either for me or against me". I believe your eternal condition depends on that decision.

Can you show me where this is " Jesus said "you are either for me or against me"."

Matthew 12:30
Luke 11:23

Anonymous wrote:
Or do you value your religion's practices but not think much about God?

I would say, I fall in the above category. But only to a small extent.
I have a small space in my house dedicated to God and I light a candle now and then. I go to the temple once in a while, I celebrate my festivals with zest. I undertake religious activities in my house.
I also do many things in a day that are prohibited by my religion.


I also believe in scientific discoveries, vaccinations, space age etc. I am sure, in time, science will provide us more answers than there are today.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also a non-believer. I'm curious about what it means to "glorify God" -- does that simply mean living your best life and caring for others/the planet? Or is it about religious ritual -- praying and going to church and tithing?

By believing in the gift of his Son and following his Son you acknowledge his will and plan. Jesus said "you are either for me or against me". I believe your eternal condition depends on that decision.

Can you show me where this is " Jesus said "you are either for me or against me"."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe the children are our future Teach them well and let them lead the way.

Children are always the way of the future. There would be no future without them. More and more children are being raised without religion and more and more people, especially educated people, are rejecting religion. This has been the case in Europe for decades and is happening now in the US. Much more accurate information about religion is available to everyone outside of religious institutions.

Teach the children well and let them lead the way.

What wonderful thoughts. Like religion, they are worth believing because of the happiness they bring.

I am old, and grew up a non-believer. I looked back at previous generations, at people like George Bernard Shaw and Bertrand Russell, at people I knew, and thought religion was a relic of the past. But now I look around at born again evangelists and fundamentalist Muslims and realize how I underestimated the will to believe.

Children are surely the future, but by the time they inherit it, they will no longer be children, and will have the same weaknesses today's adults have.

I am more optimistic than you, having seen the changes more education and awareness can bring (as in Europe). Even on this board, staunch defenders of an ancient dogmatic religion like Catholicism, now claim to be Catholic, while breaking many of the still existing rules -- things they would have been ex-communicated for in the past (if not burned at the stake!). Some liberal protestant churches are welcoming agnostics and academic seminaries have been teaching accurate biblical history for decades.

In Europe, churches are being refashioned as arts centers and in the US, some are being turned in to condos and bars. The will to believe is still there, but it's evolving away from organized, dogmatic religion and that is a good thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe the children are our future Teach them well and let them lead the way.

Children are always the way of the future. There would be no future without them. More and more children are being raised without religion and more and more people, especially educated people, are rejecting religion. This has been the case in Europe for decades and is happening now in the US. Much more accurate information about religion is available to everyone outside of religious institutions.

Teach the children well and let them lead the way.

What wonderful thoughts. Like religion, they are worth believing because of the happiness they bring.

I am old, and grew up a non-believer. I looked back at previous generations, at people like George Bernard Shaw and Bertrand Russell, at people I knew, and thought religion was a relic of the past. But now I look around at born again evangelists and fundamentalist Muslims and realize how I underestimated the will to believe.

Children are surely the future, but by the time they inherit it, they will no longer be children, and will have the same weaknesses today's adults have.

Yes, and they will be living in a somewhat different world - and that will make a big difference - it always has.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe the children are our future Teach them well and let them lead the way.

Children are always the way of the future. There would be no future without them. More and more children are being raised without religion and more and more people, especially educated people, are rejecting religion. This has been the case in Europe for decades and is happening now in the US. Much more accurate information about religion is available to everyone outside of religious institutions.

Teach the children well and let them lead the way.

What wonderful thoughts. Like religion, they are worth believing because of the happiness they bring.

I am old, and grew up a non-believer. I looked back at previous generations, at people like George Bernard Shaw and Bertrand Russell, at people I knew, and thought religion was a relic of the past. But now I look around at born again evangelists and fundamentalist Muslims and realize how I underestimated the will to believe.

Children are surely the future, but by the time they inherit it, they will no longer be children, and will have the same weaknesses today's adults have.

Anonymous wrote:I believe the children are our future Teach them well and let them lead the way.

Children are always the way of the future. There would be no future without them. More and more children are being raised without religion and more and more people, especially educated people, are rejecting religion. This has been the case in Europe for decades and is happening now in the US. Much more accurate information about religion is available to everyone outside of religious institutions.

Teach the children well and let them lead the way.

The progical son. But a girl version

I believe the children are our future Teach them well and let them lead the way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe there is no way for human beings to understand the answers to those questions.

the point is not to understand answers but to describe beliefs.

OP here. Thank you, 11:59, that was exactly my point. To add a bit of context, I'm an atheist and/or agnostic who is not trying to be snide, but would really like to understand the different varieties of belief. A similar thread about non-believers would also be interesting.

I'm the quoted PP at the top. I am a believer. I also think there's no way to understand God. Why are those two thoughts contradictory? You asked what kind of a believer I am and that's the kind -- the kind that believes but thinks it's impossible for humans to understand the answers to your questions.

OP again. Although I did not understand your original answer, the second version makes perfect sense to me. Since I believe there is no way to understand the ultimate question of "WHY?", I think we basically agree except that you have a name for the thing we don't understand and I don't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Deist. Look it up.

Yep, choice #2 on your list.

Interesting. I bet a deist could not be elected president today.

Only if they revealed that she/he was a Deist, otherwise I believe at least one may have been elected in this century.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe there is no way for human beings to understand the answers to those questions.

the point is not to understand answers but to describe beliefs.

OP here. Thank you, 11:59, that was exactly my point. To add a bit of context, I'm an atheist and/or agnostic who is not trying to be snide, but would really like to understand the different varieties of belief. A similar thread about non-believers would also be interesting.

I'm the quoted PP at the top. I am a believer. I also think there's no way to understand God. Why are those two thoughts contradictory? You asked what kind of a believer I am and that's the kind -- the kind that believes but thinks it's impossible for humans to understand the answers to your questions.

an "It's a mystery" kind of believer