Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Larla,
Friendships come and go and I feel that is happening with us these days. I am genuinely concerned for you and I think seeing a counselor may help you with sorting through some of your feelings. If you won't do it for you, do it for Johnny who needs his mom to be as healthy as she can be, because there is no one else to care for him.

You are absolutely correct that no one knows exactly what you have been through or how you feel. Everyone has rough times in life, but it is not a contest; what is rough to you is the worst for you and what is rough to someone else is the worst for them. There is no winner. I'm sorry things have been so rough for you as a single mom by choice. I honestly don't know what I would do, but I wish you the best.

Take care,
Marla

OP here. THat is pretty darn good. I was just thinking that my operative question is:

Will indicating to her that I can see she needs help expedite or delay her internal process of making the decision to seek that help?

I had to give my husband an ultimatum before he would acknowledge the seriousness of what he was doing. I said seek treatment and I will stand by you.

I am not looking to save this relationship. I dont care what she thinks of me. There is only thing that actually matters here, and that is that there is an 8 year old boy looking at a terrible life if his mom loses it. And as tough as she is in some ways (she went through some ER experiences recently that were pretty challenging) everyone has a breaking point.

All that matters to me is can her breaking point be prevented, and if so, how can I best help that?

Im concerned that doing or saying ANYthing could set her back. But on the other hand, sending a responsible message such as "I am really seeing signs of a nervous breakdown, or depression. For Johnny's sake, please seek help." can't really be wrong.

PP, this letter idea is appealing to me. Ive sent her a letter in the past that she ignored (reaching out after she stopped making contact) or even acknowledged. But a letter would allow me to say what needs to be said without even dealing with talking to her directly anymore. And she could process it however she processes it, but in the end, the words would be true.

There is your answer - you don't care so just don't call or answer the phone. Let it die. She doesn't like you either obviously...it's not your problem.

Anonymous wrote:OK- OP one final time- I drafted a letter. I left out any hit of judgment and didnt call her out on anything but I hit the major points. Does this look good?


Dear "Katy",

I understand friendships come and go. I had genuinely hoped that my caring and ideas based on the experiences of others, as well my own, would be of help to you. I really cared and really tried. I can see you tried to be friends as well. And I appreciate that.

We may not ultimately be compatible as friends, but that doesn't mean I cannot see the good and bad in your situation. I understand you feel your challenges are unique, as do we all when we face the hardest of times. My biggest worry is that you are reaching a breaking point. Its something you have been saying yourself on and off for a few years now.

Based on my direct personal experience with my husband, seeking the help of a really good therapist and considering real treatment for depression and anxiety can turn a persons life around. Ive seen it too many times to dismiss. Its hard to admit that help is needed, but in your case, "Timmy" depends on you so completely that you truly cannot afford to break down.

"Timmy" deserves to see the best qualities his mom has to offer, and you also deserve to enjoy your own strengths and positive qualities. I believe you can build a better life for yourself like you have said you want to. But I think you need smart and savvy help from a professional who knows what they are doing. They are out there. Your job's insurance is the best place to begin.

Wishing you the best,

Wow! Can you imagine what it would be like to get this letter? It would immediately be reposted to all and you would have an enemy forever. You are not this woman's therapist. Ouch.

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Well, anyway, "Katie" calls and leaves a message at 9:30 on Saturday night. She of course does not apologize for hanging up on me, and instead says she hung up on me because she was "out of it". (Not what happened at all. This is an example of rewriting past events.) She wanted to call to tell me something someone said to her to vaildate her need to be upset at them and closed with "call if you want". This woman is 51 years old. "Call if you want"??

Well, I don't want.

So don't. Your friend "Katy/Katie/Kaitie/Kaity/K8E..." does sound like a bit of a trainwreck, but you don't exactly sound stable and sane yourself.

Ignore her. Focus on you.

(Unrelated: When did "9:30 on Saturday night" become a no-no hour? It's Saturday night. And don't you folks turn off your ringers if you don't want to be disturbed?)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK- OP one final time- I drafted a letter. I left out any hit of judgment and didnt call her out on anything but I hit the major points. Does this look good?


Dear "Katy",

I understand friendships come and go. I had genuinely hoped that my caring and ideas based on the experiences of others, as well my own, would be of help to you. I really cared and really tried. I can see you tried to be friends as well. And I appreciate that.

We may not ultimately be compatible as friends, but that doesn't mean I cannot see the good and bad in your situation. I understand you feel your challenges are unique, as do we all when we face the hardest of times. My biggest worry is that you are reaching a breaking point. Its something you have been saying yourself on and off for a few years now.

Based on my direct personal experience with my husband, seeking the help of a really good therapist and considering real treatment for depression and anxiety can turn a persons life around. Ive seen it too many times to dismiss. Its hard to admit that help is needed, but in your case, "Timmy" depends on you so completely that you truly cannot afford to break down.

"Timmy" deserves to see the best qualities his mom has to offer, and you also deserve to enjoy your own strengths and positive qualities. I believe you can build a better life for yourself like you have said you want to. But I think you need smart and savvy help from a professional who knows what they are doing. They are out there. Your job's insurance is the best place to begin.

Wishing you the best,

I would NEVER send a letter like this to anyone, certainly not to someone I thought was on the verge of some kind of breakdown. Wow, how would YOU feel receiving this letter? I don't understand the point of your urgency, either -- you want to dump her before she dumps you?

I also don't get what "push back" is. Seriously, what does that mean, or is it code for "she is clearly not liking me as much as she used to"? If she is interrupting you, hanging up on you and generally being not nice, she is probably expecting the friendship to end. I wouldn't write the letter. I would just not be warm or friendly if I spoke to her. If she asks why, say "I'm mad that you hung up on me -- I don't need that crap on my way to work" or whatever.

I haven't dealt with that kind of behavior in years and years. Seriously. You might want to ask yourself why you are friends with someone like that in the first place.

Well, the truth is, I decided to give her a second chance. PP, if I was as messed up as she is, I _hope_ I would have sought help LONG AGO. I cant know how it would feel to be so disconnected from reality that a third party would even feel compelled to write a letter like that to me, and I hope I never do. However, I dont believe if my only problem was a potential nervous breakdown that this letter would push me over the edge.

YOu say you havent dealt with this behavior in years and years. Well Im 45 and I never have. I have no analog for this whatsoever. I thought it was a series of misunderstandings and misreads and now I can see she is just very distorted in her thinking.

"Push Back" is not code. Its a simple way of stating the complete and total rejection of any positive help, suggestions, or even possible POV ideas out there in the world generally. Push back happens when you suggest her POV might not be the only one at play.

You are right PP: I should just say I dont need that crap. But why would you think thats better to say to someone on the edge of a nervous breakdown than a letter addressing a history of exchanges anchored in some kind of potential mutual...understanding? Aaaaand as I write this I see there is no mutual understanding, which is your whole point.

Yeah, you're right.

I

OP again. Well, anyway, "Katie" calls and leaves a message at 9:30 on Saturday night. She of course does not apologize for hanging up on me, and instead says she hung up on me because she was "out of it". (Not what happened at all. This is an example of rewriting past events.) She wanted to call to tell me something someone said to her to vaildate her need to be upset at them and closed with "call if you want". This woman is 51 years old. "Call if you want"??

Well, I don't want.

This call puts the letter idea on hold for the moment. She has clearly reconstituted herself enough to demonstrate that once again the only thing that matters here is her feelings and situation.

Time to move on.

Anonymous wrote:OK- OP one final time- I drafted a letter. I left out any hit of judgment and didnt call her out on anything but I hit the major points. Does this look good?


Dear "Katy",

I understand friendships come and go. I had genuinely hoped that my caring and ideas based on the experiences of others, as well my own, would be of help to you. I really cared and really tried. I can see you tried to be friends as well. And I appreciate that.

We may not ultimately be compatible as friends, but that doesn't mean I cannot see the good and bad in your situation. I understand you feel your challenges are unique, as do we all when we face the hardest of times. My biggest worry is that you are reaching a breaking point. Its something you have been saying yourself on and off for a few years now.

Based on my direct personal experience with my husband, seeking the help of a really good therapist and considering real treatment for depression and anxiety can turn a persons life around. Ive seen it too many times to dismiss. Its hard to admit that help is needed, but in your case, "Timmy" depends on you so completely that you truly cannot afford to break down.

"Timmy" deserves to see the best qualities his mom has to offer, and you also deserve to enjoy your own strengths and positive qualities. I believe you can build a better life for yourself like you have said you want to. But I think you need smart and savvy help from a professional who knows what they are doing. They are out there. Your job's insurance is the best place to begin.

Wishing you the best,

19:39 here again and less is, indeed, more. She sounds quite narcissistic in her ways, so she really could not care less about you, your direct experiences or any other relevant experiences you have tried to share with her. She only cares and wants to talk about herself. Period. You mention being able to see the good and the bad in her situation, but I honestly don't see any good in her situation and she damn well won't either! Definitely leave that part out as it opens you up to contact from her again about how NOT good anything is in her life. (as she sees it)

Anonymous wrote:OK- OP one final time- I drafted a letter. I left out any hit of judgment and didnt call her out on anything but I hit the major points. Does this look good?


Dear "Katy",

I understand friendships come and go. I had genuinely hoped that my caring and ideas based on the experiences of others, as well my own, would be of help to you. I really cared and really tried. I can see you tried to be friends as well. And I appreciate that.

We may not ultimately be compatible as friends, but that doesn't mean I cannot see the good and bad in your situation. I understand you feel your challenges are unique, as do we all when we face the hardest of times. My biggest worry is that you are reaching a breaking point. Its something you have been saying yourself on and off for a few years now.

Based on my direct personal experience with my husband, seeking the help of a really good therapist and considering real treatment for depression and anxiety can turn a persons life around. Ive seen it too many times to dismiss. Its hard to admit that help is needed, but in your case, "Timmy" depends on you so completely that you truly cannot afford to break down.

"Timmy" deserves to see the best qualities his mom has to offer, and you also deserve to enjoy your own strengths and positive qualities. I believe you can build a better life for yourself like you have said you want to. But I think you need smart and savvy help from a professional who knows what they are doing. They are out there. Your job's insurance is the best place to begin.

Wishing you the best,

I would NEVER send a letter like this to anyone, certainly not to someone I thought was on the verge of some kind of breakdown. Wow, how would YOU feel receiving this letter? I don't understand the point of your urgency, either -- you want to dump her before she dumps you?

I also don't get what "push back" is. Seriously, what does that mean, or is it code for "she is clearly not liking me as much as she used to"? If she is interrupting you, hanging up on you and generally being not nice, she is probably expecting the friendship to end. I wouldn't write the letter. I would just not be warm or friendly if I spoke to her. If she asks why, say "I'm mad that you hung up on me -- I don't need that crap on my way to work" or whatever.

I haven't dealt with that kind of behavior in years and years. Seriously. You might want to ask yourself why you are friends with someone like that in the first place.

Anonymous wrote:Dear Larla,
Friendships come and go and I feel that is happening with us these days. I am genuinely concerned for you and I think seeing a counselor may help you with sorting through some of your feelings. If you won't do it for you, do it for Johnny who needs his mom to be as healthy as she can be, because there is no one else to care for him.

You are absolutely correct that no one knows exactly what you have been through or how you feel. Everyone has rough times in life, but it is not a contest; what is rough to you is the worst for you and what is rough to someone else is the worst for them. There is no winner. I'm sorry things have been so rough for you as a single mom by choice. I honestly don't know what I would do, but I wish you the best.

Take care,
Marla

This is excellent. Compassionate and non-judgmental, but indicates closure without slamming the door.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK- OP one final time- I drafted a letter. I left out any hit of judgment and didnt call her out on anything but I hit the major points. Does this look good?


Dear "Katy",

I understand friendships come and go. I had genuinely hoped that my caring and ideas based on the experiences of others, as well my own, would be of help to you. I really cared and really tried. I can see you tried to be friends as well. And I appreciate that.

We may not ultimately be compatible as friends, but that doesn't mean I cannot see the good and bad in your situation. I understand you feel your challenges are unique, as do we all when we face the hardest of times. My biggest worry is that you are reaching a breaking point. Its something you have been saying yourself on and off for a few years now.

Based on my direct personal experience with my husband, seeking the help of a really good therapist and considering real treatment for depression and anxiety can turn a persons life around. Ive seen it too many times to dismiss. Its hard to admit that help is needed, but in your case, "Timmy" depends on you so completely that you truly cannot afford to break down.

"Timmy" deserves to see the best qualities his mom has to offer, and you also deserve to enjoy your own strengths and positive qualities. I believe you can build a better life for yourself like you have said you want to. But I think you need smart and savvy help from a professional who knows what they are doing. They are out there. Your job's insurance is the best place to begin.

Wishing you the best,

OP, the best and most compassionate way to let someone go is to let them go. This isn't letting "Katy" go. This is saying "I want to say that you have some problems, and I'm going to walk away from you now. Get help on your own." How is that even remotely close to compassionate?!

You say she's not making contact. Why can't you just leave her alone?

I agree. Way too much here. Just send what 19:39 wrote and be done. Less is more.

Anonymous wrote:OK- OP one final time- I drafted a letter. I left out any hit of judgment and didnt call her out on anything but I hit the major points. Does this look good?


Dear "Katy",

I understand friendships come and go. I had genuinely hoped that my caring and ideas based on the experiences of others, as well my own, would be of help to you. I really cared and really tried. I can see you tried to be friends as well. And I appreciate that.

We may not ultimately be compatible as friends, but that doesn't mean I cannot see the good and bad in your situation. I understand you feel your challenges are unique, as do we all when we face the hardest of times. My biggest worry is that you are reaching a breaking point. Its something you have been saying yourself on and off for a few years now.

Based on my direct personal experience with my husband, seeking the help of a really good therapist and considering real treatment for depression and anxiety can turn a persons life around. Ive seen it too many times to dismiss. Its hard to admit that help is needed, but in your case, "Timmy" depends on you so completely that you truly cannot afford to break down.

"Timmy" deserves to see the best qualities his mom has to offer, and you also deserve to enjoy your own strengths and positive qualities. I believe you can build a better life for yourself like you have said you want to. But I think you need smart and savvy help from a professional who knows what they are doing. They are out there. Your job's insurance is the best place to begin.

Wishing you the best,

OP, the best and most compassionate way to let someone go is to let them go. This isn't letting "Katy" go. This is saying "I want to say that you have some problems, and I'm going to walk away from you now. Get help on your own." How is that even remotely close to compassionate?!

You say she's not making contact. Why can't you just leave her alone?

Good letter, OP. Good luck. You sound like a caring person. I hope she gets some help.

No way does this bitch work. No.fucking.way.

I had a friend like this, OP. I catered and tried to help. You know what was the final irony? She blew ME off. After YEARS of me trying to deal with Ms. High-Maintenance, she blew me off. Sounds like maybe you are getting to that place.

From what you describe, your friend is not open to feedback. It is not passive-aggressive to let something fade away if you already know the direct route won't work. Your goal is to extricate yourself, and bottom line is we're all human here, so if it's not done perfectly, it's ok.

I say this because I had another friend who was a frienemy that I really knew I had to get out of my life. I felt like I needed to be a straight shooter and give her a chance and tell her what I was thinking. I tried dipping my toe in that pond and got it bitten off. So my next tactic was to try to let it fade away. She wouldn't let it. But it was really getting toxic. Still, I stalled, because I felt I had to do something in person or at least over the phone.

Meanwhile my DH had to hear all about it. Really this stuff just takes you away from, and strains, what's important in life, which is your family and healthy relationships.

Finally, when Thanksgiving came around and I realized that before Thanksgiving TWO YEARS PRIOR, I had determined that this person should be out of my life, I decided that I needed to cut it and even though I would be looked at as a coward, the only way I could do it was via email. So I emailed her, telling her I needed to take a break for a while. In truth, at the time I thought I would probably revisit our friendship, but after she was finally out of my life, I knew that this was the healthier place for me to be. I still think about her, love her, and miss the things about her that made her an important person in my life. But I never regret what I did. There is a great expression: Don't make the Perfect the enemy of the Good.

So how I did this was not perfect, but it was better than not getting it done at all.
Good luck, OP!

OK- OP one final time- I drafted a letter. I left out any hit of judgment and didnt call her out on anything but I hit the major points. Does this look good?


Dear "Katy",

I understand friendships come and go. I had genuinely hoped that my caring and ideas based on the experiences of others, as well my own, would be of help to you. I really cared and really tried. I can see you tried to be friends as well. And I appreciate that.

We may not ultimately be compatible as friends, but that doesn't mean I cannot see the good and bad in your situation. I understand you feel your challenges are unique, as do we all when we face the hardest of times. My biggest worry is that you are reaching a breaking point. Its something you have been saying yourself on and off for a few years now.

Based on my direct personal experience with my husband, seeking the help of a really good therapist and considering real treatment for depression and anxiety can turn a persons life around. Ive seen it too many times to dismiss. Its hard to admit that help is needed, but in your case, "Timmy" depends on you so completely that you truly cannot afford to break down.

"Timmy" deserves to see the best qualities his mom has to offer, and you also deserve to enjoy your own strengths and positive qualities. I believe you can build a better life for yourself like you have said you want to. But I think you need smart and savvy help from a professional who knows what they are doing. They are out there. Your job's insurance is the best place to begin.

Wishing you the best,

OP again- thanks everyone. This has been a bit of an ordeal and getting quick ideas on a mode of closure, such as the letter, is really helpful.

I did not consider that I actually could close this out for myself with a short to the point letter, and that this would be valuable for me to move on as quickly as possible.