Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only one of the foreign students in my PhD program had outside funding. The rest were given scholarships for tuition and teaching assistant jobs just like the rest of us (meaning citizens - and "we" only accounted for about 1/4 - 1/5 of the class)

Same experience here.

Probably true, but the vast majority of IT jobs don't require an advanced degree.

These posts were not in reference to IT jobs but in reference to the earlier PP's that said there were many foreign students in STEM graduate programs (which I found to be true from my PhD program and other PhD programs at my school) and that many foreign students were being subsidized by their country or non-US dollars to come to graduate school here (which I did NOT find to be true at my program - there were just a few cases like that)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only one of the foreign students in my PhD program had outside funding. The rest were given scholarships for tuition and teaching assistant jobs just like the rest of us (meaning citizens - and "we" only accounted for about 1/4 - 1/5 of the class)

Same experience here.

Probably true, but the vast majority of IT jobs don't require an advanced degree.

But a lot of the highly paid ones do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More higly skilled H1Bs (and their studious kids) the better.

Less unskilled illegal immigrants the better.

Less Americans who don't get, or like, math.

I'd like to know who mows the lawn of the house of the highly skilled HIB and his/her studious kids? I'm betting it's not the studious kids, nor the parents.

I mow my own lawn, for exercise, thanks. And no I don't bill myself my hourly rate to do so.

If some legal immigrant or unskilled american wants $20 for 15 minutes of mowing, the s/he can mow it.

Btw, the amount of net aid and resources illegal immigrants consume from taxpayers far outweighs any cheap labor for my yard work or house cleaning. Ironically the latter was less costly for us in London than here.go figure...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only one of the foreign students in my PhD program had outside funding. The rest were given scholarships for tuition and teaching assistant jobs just like the rest of us (meaning citizens - and "we" only accounted for about 1/4 - 1/5 of the class)

Same experience here.

Probably true, but the vast majority of IT jobs don't require an advanced degree.

Anonymous wrote:Only one of the foreign students in my PhD program had outside funding. The rest were given scholarships for tuition and teaching assistant jobs just like the rest of us (meaning citizens - and "we" only accounted for about 1/4 - 1/5 of the class)

Same experience here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More higly skilled H1Bs (and their studious kids) the better.

Less unskilled illegal immigrants the better.

Less Americans who don't get, or like, math.

I'd like to know who mows the lawn of the house of the highly skilled HIB and his/her studious kids? I'm betting it's not the studious kids, nor the parents.

Well, without the illegals it will have to be the American kids who grew up under 2.0, according to many posters here.

Anonymous wrote:More higly skilled H1Bs (and their studious kids) the better.

Less unskilled illegal immigrants the better.

Less Americans who don't get, or like, math.

I'd like to know who mows the lawn of the house of the highly skilled HIB and his/her studious kids? I'm betting it's not the studious kids, nor the parents.

PP here - they were almost ALL better equipped for the work than the citizens (and this is even after getting bachelor degrees)

Only one of the foreign students in my PhD program had outside funding. The rest were given scholarships for tuition and teaching assistant jobs just like the rest of us (meaning citizens - and "we" only accounted for about 1/4 - 1/5 of the class)

More higly skilled H1Bs (and their studious kids) the better.

Less unskilled illegal immigrants the better.

Less Americans who don't get, or like, math.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article is very on point. A university level math professor is not going to dumb down their curriculum for the incoming crop of story telling math students who draw circles for simple calculations. They are not there to hold students hands and its still a very sink or swim discipline. Schools have created tracks such as math for non-science majors for those who come in with MCPS type skills. Other schools do offer some remedial catch up courses but the trend is just to advise them away from the STEM fields that require actual math for science majors.

2.0 will give you enough math for community college and tries to apply the same labels so parents think their kids are still being well prepared in Algebra, Geometry and Calculus. The schools can call courses whatever they want. They can spend an entire semester finger painting and call it Algebra, Some people will act like sheep and buy this. Others will object and find alternative math education.

What is so sad at a broader level is that math is not impossible and its quite interesting if students are given a good foundation to explore and practice the discipline which they are not allowed to do in 2.0. The very math oriented students from highly educated parents or kids coming out of private will still be prepared if they wish to pursue STEM careers, the rest will not. We really don't need anymore communication or education majors.

2.0 will get you to calculus in 12th grade for on-grade-level math, and to calculus in 11th grade for above-grade-level math. What are the math requirements for community college?

Or are you saying that MCPS is calling it calculus, and AP is calling calculus, but yet it isn't really?

I only know that the tech companies are full of foreign born workers. That is because the STEM majors and graduate schools are full of foreign born students.

The evidence that math education under Curriculum 2.0 in MCPS is lousy is that the tech companies are full of foreign-born workers on H-1B visas?

H1-B visas are more a cost/control issue IMO.

Really, you think there are lots of Americans available but just too expensive? How do you explain graduate school then? The foreigners don't pay tuition. They get fellowships to come here to study.

Some of the foreign students are given grants by their government to attend graduate school here, especially in STEM fields (my cousin did from his home country).

Also, in some countries, the college level education doesn't cover General Ed like we do here. Here, you have to take x # of credits in GE (usually adds up to 2 yrs). In some countries, college level education is specifically focused on your major. So, if you are a Comp Sci major, you spend the entire x # of yrs in college just focusing on that, including math. Some may say that is better (to not spend time on GE in college), but some may say it's better for a person to be more well rounded, so GEs are essential.

I'm in an IT field. H1Bs *are* mostly due to cost control, but not all. Asian countries are producing a lot more people in STEM than we are. There are schools just for IT, and they just churn them out. These countries just focus more on STEM much more than the US, and Asians flock to STEM fields in the US (for various reasons). This is part of the reason why high tech workers are full of Asians.

Also, HS students in Asia spend *a lot* more time in school and/or after school tutoring classes than kids here. In Korea, for example, the after school tutoring classes are a multi-billion dollar industry. Their top tutoring guy makes like $4 million/yr. Another reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article is very on point. A university level math professor is not going to dumb down their curriculum for the incoming crop of story telling math students who draw circles for simple calculations. They are not there to hold students hands and its still a very sink or swim discipline. Schools have created tracks such as math for non-science majors for those who come in with MCPS type skills. Other schools do offer some remedial catch up courses but the trend is just to advise them away from the STEM fields that require actual math for science majors.

2.0 will give you enough math for community college and tries to apply the same labels so parents think their kids are still being well prepared in Algebra, Geometry and Calculus. The schools can call courses whatever they want. They can spend an entire semester finger painting and call it Algebra, Some people will act like sheep and buy this. Others will object and find alternative math education.

What is so sad at a broader level is that math is not impossible and its quite interesting if students are given a good foundation to explore and practice the discipline which they are not allowed to do in 2.0. The very math oriented students from highly educated parents or kids coming out of private will still be prepared if they wish to pursue STEM careers, the rest will not. We really don't need anymore communication or education majors.

2.0 will get you to calculus in 12th grade for on-grade-level math, and to calculus in 11th grade for above-grade-level math. What are the math requirements for community college?

Or are you saying that MCPS is calling it calculus, and AP is calling calculus, but yet it isn't really?

I only know that the tech companies are full of foreign born workers. That is because the STEM majors and graduate schools are full of foreign born students.

The evidence that math education under Curriculum 2.0 in MCPS is lousy is that the tech companies are full of foreign-born workers on H-1B visas?

H1-B visas are more a cost/control issue IMO.

Really, you think there are lots of Americans available but just too expensive? How do you explain graduate school then? The foreigners don't pay tuition. They get fellowships to come here to study.

Yeah, I do. And I'm not the only one: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/05/20/Report-U-S-Has-Surplus-Not-Shortage-of-High-Tech-Workers

And here: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/the-bogus-high-tech-worker-sho/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article is very on point. A university level math professor is not going to dumb down their curriculum for the incoming crop of story telling math students who draw circles for simple calculations. They are not there to hold students hands and its still a very sink or swim discipline. Schools have created tracks such as math for non-science majors for those who come in with MCPS type skills. Other schools do offer some remedial catch up courses but the trend is just to advise them away from the STEM fields that require actual math for science majors.

2.0 will give you enough math for community college and tries to apply the same labels so parents think their kids are still being well prepared in Algebra, Geometry and Calculus. The schools can call courses whatever they want. They can spend an entire semester finger painting and call it Algebra, Some people will act like sheep and buy this. Others will object and find alternative math education.

What is so sad at a broader level is that math is not impossible and its quite interesting if students are given a good foundation to explore and practice the discipline which they are not allowed to do in 2.0. The very math oriented students from highly educated parents or kids coming out of private will still be prepared if they wish to pursue STEM careers, the rest will not. We really don't need anymore communication or education majors.

2.0 will get you to calculus in 12th grade for on-grade-level math, and to calculus in 11th grade for above-grade-level math. What are the math requirements for community college?

Or are you saying that MCPS is calling it calculus, and AP is calling calculus, but yet it isn't really?

I only know that the tech companies are full of foreign born workers. That is because the STEM majors and graduate schools are full of foreign born students.

The evidence that math education under Curriculum 2.0 in MCPS is lousy is that the tech companies are full of foreign-born workers on H-1B visas?

H1-B visas are more a cost/control issue IMO.

Really, you think there are lots of Americans available but just too expensive? How do you explain graduate school then? The foreigners don't pay tuition. They get fellowships to come here to study.

Yeah, I do. And I'm not the only one: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/05/20/Report-U-S-Has-Surplus-Not-Shortage-of-High-Tech-Workers

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article is very on point. A university level math professor is not going to dumb down their curriculum for the incoming crop of story telling math students who draw circles for simple calculations. They are not there to hold students hands and its still a very sink or swim discipline. Schools have created tracks such as math for non-science majors for those who come in with MCPS type skills. Other schools do offer some remedial catch up courses but the trend is just to advise them away from the STEM fields that require actual math for science majors.

2.0 will give you enough math for community college and tries to apply the same labels so parents think their kids are still being well prepared in Algebra, Geometry and Calculus. The schools can call courses whatever they want. They can spend an entire semester finger painting and call it Algebra, Some people will act like sheep and buy this. Others will object and find alternative math education.

What is so sad at a broader level is that math is not impossible and its quite interesting if students are given a good foundation to explore and practice the discipline which they are not allowed to do in 2.0. The very math oriented students from highly educated parents or kids coming out of private will still be prepared if they wish to pursue STEM careers, the rest will not. We really don't need anymore communication or education majors.

2.0 will get you to calculus in 12th grade for on-grade-level math, and to calculus in 11th grade for above-grade-level math. What are the math requirements for community college?

Or are you saying that MCPS is calling it calculus, and AP is calling calculus, but yet it isn't really?

I only know that the tech companies are full of foreign born workers. That is because the STEM majors and graduate schools are full of foreign born students.

The evidence that math education under Curriculum 2.0 in MCPS is lousy is that the tech companies are full of foreign-born workers on H-1B visas?

H1-B visas are more a cost/control issue IMO.

Really, you think there are lots of Americans available but just too expensive? How do you explain graduate school then? The foreigners don't pay tuition. They get fellowships to come here to study.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article is very on point. A university level math professor is not going to dumb down their curriculum for the incoming crop of story telling math students who draw circles for simple calculations. They are not there to hold students hands and its still a very sink or swim discipline. Schools have created tracks such as math for non-science majors for those who come in with MCPS type skills. Other schools do offer some remedial catch up courses but the trend is just to advise them away from the STEM fields that require actual math for science majors.

2.0 will give you enough math for community college and tries to apply the same labels so parents think their kids are still being well prepared in Algebra, Geometry and Calculus. The schools can call courses whatever they want. They can spend an entire semester finger painting and call it Algebra, Some people will act like sheep and buy this. Others will object and find alternative math education.

What is so sad at a broader level is that math is not impossible and its quite interesting if students are given a good foundation to explore and practice the discipline which they are not allowed to do in 2.0. The very math oriented students from highly educated parents or kids coming out of private will still be prepared if they wish to pursue STEM careers, the rest will not. We really don't need anymore communication or education majors.

2.0 will get you to calculus in 12th grade for on-grade-level math, and to calculus in 11th grade for above-grade-level math. What are the math requirements for community college?

Or are you saying that MCPS is calling it calculus, and AP is calling calculus, but yet it isn't really?

I only know that the tech companies are full of foreign born workers. That is because the STEM majors and graduate schools are full of foreign born students.

The evidence that math education under Curriculum 2.0 in MCPS is lousy is that the tech companies are full of foreign-born workers on H-1B visas?

H1-B visas are more a cost/control issue IMO.