This is a conversation that must be had with ALL our children.

No doubt we have to talk to the boys: no means NO. Don't take advantage of an incapacitated girl and don't get yourself into a state where your judgment is impaired.

We ALSO have to talk to our girls. Every instance of a drunk girl being raped involves a girl getting drunk - don't be that girl. Don't get yourself into a state where you are incapacitated or your judgment is impaired.

When I read unsafe college campus, I thought that this thread would discuss the incidents of violent crimes on or near college campuses - murder, armed robbery, kidnapping, assault with a deadly weapon, beatings, rapes, and property crimes like stolen property, vandalism, break-ins.

I was once approached near my university by a car with tinted windows which swerved and slowed down to reach my side of the sidewalk, this around midnight. I ran straight for the nearest dorm without waiting to see what the occupants of that car wanted. The next summer a young woman at the same university was kidnapped off the street in the late night, blindfolded, and driven to an abandoned neighborhood building where she was gang raped over many hours and left for dead. She survived, thank God.

Anonymous wrote:We too are educating our boys that "no means no" but my concern is that a regret is being recast as a rape later. Rape is violent.

You need to educate yourself about what rape really means. This concept that rape can only happen in a dark alley at the hands of a dirty stranger is antiquated thinking and completely wrong. Please learn what this really means before your children are old enough to be talking about this…you need to give the real answers, not the 1940's stereotype.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am stunned we have all these rapes on college campuses by STUDENTS. Who are these boys? Are they my son's friends? Are they normal kids or are they mentally ill? Do regular, well adjusted boys rape people? If so, what happened to our society? Why do so many boy college students apparently think it's ok to assault their classmates?

Talk to your sons! Make sure you haven't raised an animal who has no respect for women.
Honestly, this whole epidemic makes me sick. Does our ultra-sexual culture and misogynist images create a "rape culture?"
Can anyone shed light on what's happening?

Yes.

+1

When I was in college I was sexually assaulted by a nice, normal, well-adjusted boy. He (and every other boy I hung out with those days) was so thoroughly indoctrinated in rape culture that he didn't pay attention to the fact that I was too drunk to consent or verbalize to him that I didn't want any sexual contact. Had he actually asked me "is this okay?" or cared about the fact that I was borderline unconscious, he would have gotten the clue. Instead, we both had to deal with the implications of that night for close to a year. It was awful.

What culture do you have to be indoctrinated in to think you can get wasted and not make bad decisions or be taken advantage of?

Both boys and girls need to be educated on responsible behavior.

I'm the PP you're trying to bash, I assume. Unfortunately for you, there is no "get drunk and make bad decisions" culture. In hindsight I obviously recognized that I should not have been so drunk that night, but there is NO excuse for what happened to me. I should have been able to drink and have a fun night with my friends without worrying about someone taking advantage of me while I was in that state.

NP.. PP, while I agree with you in principle, unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. I should be free to walk around any street in this country without having to fear for my safety...but sadly, that is not the case. Absolutely, as parents we should talk to our kids (boys and girls) about rape and consent, but this is not going to completely stop rapes. Just like I (and most of us here) avoid certain parts of a city, it would be safer for everyone if people didn't get so trashed that they are out of control. This won't stop rapes completely, either, but it may reduce some of the rapes, especially the "too drunk to consent" ones.

Let me make clear.. I am not saying you asked for it, or it was your fault. It was a terrible thing that happened to you, but it is a situation that can be controlled to some degree by not getting trashed. When people get really drunk, there is a tendency to make bad decisions.

The problem with your argument is that it places all the responsibility on girls to act appropriately. Where is the expectation that boys act appropriately?! Your analogy about walking the streets safely forgets about the fact that in this scenario the PP was not with strangers, but rather with someone whom she trusted and thought was a friend. So "avoiding parts of the city" is not the answer to not being assaulted in the presence of someone you trusted. It's completely different and a poor choice in trying to make your point. It is not too much to ask that boys be expected to act like human beings.

Also, you claim that you do not believe PP deserved what happened to her (and for your children's sake I hope you believe that…), but by suggesting that because she was trashed she simply has to live with the consequences is another way to throw her (and all girls) under the bus. If your son was assaulted by friends - beaten up and robbed - would you tell him to suck it up and live with the consequences? No - you would be outraged because trusted friends took advantage of him while he was in an altered state and he couldn't do anything to stop them. Why is it any different for a girl being raped? Something strange happens in this society when it comes to intercourse…we can think we are past certain taboos, but we still have a long way to go.

Don't get me wrong - I have been telling my DD that she doesn't want to be the drunk girl at the party and that she needs to protect herself. Those are simply common-sense ideas (and maybe that's what you're getting at…), but at the same time I tell her brother that he has to behave properly also. The bottom line is that when alcohol is in the picture sex is out the window…it may be simplistic, but I need my son to know that a girl cannot consent to sex when she has been drinking.

Anonymous wrote:We're having serious conversations with DD about her college behavior. It's not right to just say "talk to your boys" (and we've talked to our son as well).

Has anyone said that? I think the pp only has a son and no daughters, I'm sure if she did have a daughter she would also be talking about the same issues.

I think that in addition to consent, pleasure is important to talk about with kids (even if they are grossed out). Sex should be pleasurable to all parties-so if you aren't enjoying it (and being consensual, you shouldn't be doing it. And if your partner isn't enjoying it, or is so dead drunk that you can't tell if he/she is enjoying it, you shouldn't be doing it. I don't think it's too much for both men and women to be expected to ask "are you into this, do you want to do this" and then receive an affirmative response before having sexual contact.

We're having serious conversations with DD about her college behavior. It's not right to just say "talk to your boys" (and we've talked to our son as well).

My husband and I take the sex education of our son very seriously. As in, we don't assume that he's going to just naturally be a gentleman. He's 10 now, but along with basics about "mechanics" of sex and protection, we both recognize that we will have to very actively discuss appropriate behavior with our son. You can't just tell yourself you are going to have one talk with junior a month before he heads off to school (heck, by then he might have already done something at a high school party). We actively look for age-appropriate ways to discuss respect for women and girls whenever we can.

I wish more people would do this. It's pretty easy to tell if your son is turning into a misogynistic douche bag (seems to happen in middle school), and parents need to thwart that behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am stunned we have all these rapes on college campuses by STUDENTS. Who are these boys? Are they my son's friends? Are they normal kids or are they mentally ill? Do regular, well adjusted boys rape people? If so, what happened to our society? Why do so many boy college students apparently think it's ok to assault their classmates?

Talk to your sons! Make sure you haven't raised an animal who has no respect for women.
Honestly, this whole epidemic makes me sick. Does our ultra-sexual culture and misogynist images create a "rape culture?"
Can anyone shed light on what's happening?

Yes.

+1

When I was in college I was sexually assaulted by a nice, normal, well-adjusted boy. He (and every other boy I hung out with those days) was so thoroughly indoctrinated in rape culture that he didn't pay attention to the fact that I was too drunk to consent or verbalize to him that I didn't want any sexual contact. Had he actually asked me "is this okay?" or cared about the fact that I was borderline unconscious, he would have gotten the clue. Instead, we both had to deal with the implications of that night for close to a year. It was awful.

What culture do you have to be indoctrinated in to think you can get wasted and not make bad decisions or be taken advantage of?

Both boys and girls need to be educated on responsible behavior.

I'm the PP you're trying to bash, I assume. Unfortunately for you, there is no "get drunk and make bad decisions" culture. In hindsight I obviously recognized that I should not have been so drunk that night, but there is NO excuse for what happened to me. I should have been able to drink and have a fun night with my friends without worrying about someone taking advantage of me while I was in that state.

NP.. PP, while I agree with you in principle, unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. I should be free to walk around any street in this country without having to fear for my safety...but sadly, that is not the case. Absolutely, as parents we should talk to our kids (boys and girls) about rape and consent, but this is not going to completely stop rapes. Just like I (and most of us here) avoid certain parts of a city, it would be safer for everyone if people didn't get so trashed that they are out of control. This won't stop rapes completely, either, but it may reduce some of the rapes, especially the "too drunk to consent" ones.

Let me make clear.. I am not saying you asked for it, or it was your fault. It was a terrible thing that happened to you, but it is a situation that can be controlled to some degree by not getting trashed. When people get really drunk, there is a tendency to make bad decisions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am stunned we have all these rapes on college campuses by STUDENTS. Who are these boys? Are they my son's friends? Are they normal kids or are they mentally ill? Do regular, well adjusted boys rape people? If so, what happened to our society? Why do so many boy college students apparently think it's ok to assault their classmates?

Talk to your sons! Make sure you haven't raised an animal who has no respect for women.
Honestly, this whole epidemic makes me sick. Does our ultra-sexual culture and misogynist images create a "rape culture?"
Can anyone shed light on what's happening?

Yes.

+1

When I was in college I was sexually assaulted by a nice, normal, well-adjusted boy. He (and every other boy I hung out with those days) was so thoroughly indoctrinated in rape culture that he didn't pay attention to the fact that I was too drunk to consent or verbalize to him that I didn't want any sexual contact. Had he actually asked me "is this okay?" or cared about the fact that I was borderline unconscious, he would have gotten the clue. Instead, we both had to deal with the implications of that night for close to a year. It was awful.

What culture do you have to be indoctrinated in to think you can get wasted and not make bad decisions or be taken advantage of?

Both boys and girls need to be educated on responsible behavior.

I'm the PP you're trying to bash, I assume. Unfortunately for you, there is no "get drunk and make bad decisions" culture. In hindsight I obviously recognized that I should not have been so drunk that night, but there is NO excuse for what happened to me. I should have been able to drink and have a fun night with my friends without worrying about someone taking advantage of me while I was in that state.

Anonymous wrote:We too are educating our boys that "no means no" but my concern is that a regret is being recast as a rape later. Rape is violent.

You are so, so wrong. It's not necessarily violent. It is unwanted sexual contact (or the threat of sexual contact) of any sort. That includes when someone is too intoxicated to legally consent, or when someone is pressured in to sexual contact. "No means no" is not enough. If we teach our children that when they hear no they need to stop, that leaves them thinking that as long as they don't hear "no" they have a green light, which could not be further from the truth.

We need to be teaching our children about active consent - teaching them to actively and specifically ask their partners "is this okay?" "do you want to do this?" etc. and then listen for a "yes". THAT constitutes consent. Little Jimmy telling Betty that he'll break up with her if she doesn't sleep with him, or climbing in to her bed at college when she's drunk, and then assuming it's okay because she isn't screaming and fighting him off, is NOT consent. It's sexual assault.

Wait - is the suggestion here that some schools are consistently worse with regard to "rape culture?"

putting aside the outliers such as BYU, Liberty etc. which schools have a "rape culture" and which don't?

I think this exists on most campuses and few are worse than others among "normal" coed campuses.

Anonymous wrote:We too are educating our boys that "no means no" but my concern is that a regret is being recast as a rape later. Rape is violent.

And there you go. No, it's not (legally). Rape is sexual penetration without consent.

We too are educating our boys that "no means no" but my concern is that a regret is being recast as a rape later. Rape is violent.

Anonymous wrote:In a sex class I took in college, they talked about a large survey where 1/3 of all college-aged men said they would rape a women if they knew they would get away with it. Let that marinate for a while.

Ugh. Just, ugh.
My husband and I take the sex education of our son very seriously. As in, we don't assume that he's going to just naturally be a gentleman. He's 10 now, but along with basics about "mechanics" of sex and protection, we both recognize that we will have to very actively discuss appropriate behavior with our son. You can't just tell yourself you are going to have one talk with junior a month before he heads off to school (heck, by then he might have already done something at a high school party). We actively look for age-appropriate ways to discuss respect for women and girls whenever we can.

We have to be more pro-active about this as a society.

In a sex class I took in college, they talked about a large survey where 1/3 of all college-aged men said they would rape a women if they knew they would get away with it. Let that marinate for a while.