Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 13:41     Subject: Re:Who is wrong here?
OP, sorry but I think you were wrong. I know how disgusting it is to stay in a place such as you describe. My mother was completely unable to clean for the last years of her life and she would neither allow us to do it nor allow me to get her a cleaning service. Gross, yes. But, her house, her stuff, her decision. My only option was whether I was going to visit, and, if so for how long and under what circumstances.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 13:23     Subject: Who is wrong here?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My mother died recently & my father, who was married to her for 50 yrs, is beyond grieving. So my sis & I are helping however we can. My father has said he is scared to be alone in such a big house now. He asked us to visit frequently. My sister lives with him four days out of the week but has made it clear she will not be available Fridays throughSunday. My hubs & I, along with our children drive 300 miles each wkend to make sure he will not be left alone. He appreciates it very much, but lately he & my sis have started complaining about me. My family's home is very dirty. My mother was not much of a cleaner& my father never had time. I found insects in old cereal boxes and a mice behind the frig last wkend. Hubs &I have started cleaning the house. We also replaced dirty dish rags with a stack of new towels, replaced months old dish sponges with new ones. When their dishwasher broke, we replaced that too. Tonight my sister told me that she & my father are upset that I've thrown their stuff out without permission. I told her that the only things I replaced wasdish towels, sponges, and pot holders. Petty stuff but necessary since they werefilthy. The dw was our gift. She made such a big stink of it though, that I was offended. Here I am, compromising my entire family's weekends to help, & I'm being scolded for replacing dish towels & sponges & pot holders? She said it was rude to throw ANYTHING out. I said the key point shes missing is that I replaced them with something better. She insisted it was rude. Who is wrong here??? They use sponges on dishes where raw meat was, but expect me to use it next on my baby's bottle? No thanks. So I bought many more sponges.


They are tripping. Extreme hoarding is often triggered by grief so watch out. Your family can't sacrifice valuable. Weekend time to be surrounded by a hoard.


Are you kidding? I can't imagine a better use of my time than to comfort a grieving loved one. I can't believe how selfish some people are.

OP, the reaction to dihsrags and sponges is maybe exacerbated by grief, but were the potholders a memento of your Mum? Maybe a wedding gift? Something your father and your mother bought together?

In any case, I'd have to agree with the poster who said it's not your house and so you don't get to throw stuff out without asking your dad first. I am certain you mean well, you just need to fine-tune the execution part. Discuss things with him and respect his comfort zone. Your father is grieving and needs a little time to be rational again.

Btw, you and your sister are doing a great thing in taking care of him, he must be a great dad since you're willing to do this for him. Keep it up! Kudos!


Sometimes comforting is disguised as enabling. She needs to help her father take care of himself. It's sad that mom's old potholders may have become biohazards but throwing them out may be the better alternative to her father contracting a staph infection and ending up in the hospital for six weeks.


I'm so sick of that stupid word being used to justify being mean to other with the ostensible reason to help others. The potholders were dirty? Ok, you wash them or have them dry-cleaned. You don't throw other people's stuff away without permission, esp. not a grieving person's. I'm so tired of this "pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps" mindset. The world needs more kindness, not more of the aberration known as "tough love".
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 11:19     Subject: Who is wrong here?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My mother died recently & my father, who was married to her for 50 yrs, is beyond grieving. So my sis & I are helping however we can. My father has said he is scared to be alone in such a big house now. He asked us to visit frequently. My sister lives with him four days out of the week but has made it clear she will not be available Fridays throughSunday. My hubs & I, along with our children drive 300 miles each wkend to make sure he will not be left alone. He appreciates it very much, but lately he & my sis have started complaining about me. My family's home is very dirty. My mother was not much of a cleaner& my father never had time. I found insects in old cereal boxes and a mice behind the frig last wkend. Hubs &I have started cleaning the house. We also replaced dirty dish rags with a stack of new towels, replaced months old dish sponges with new ones. When their dishwasher broke, we replaced that too. Tonight my sister told me that she & my father are upset that I've thrown their stuff out without permission. I told her that the only things I replaced wasdish towels, sponges, and pot holders. Petty stuff but necessary since they werefilthy. The dw was our gift. She made such a big stink of it though, that I was offended. Here I am, compromising my entire family's weekends to help, & I'm being scolded for replacing dish towels & sponges & pot holders? She said it was rude to throw ANYTHING out. I said the key point shes missing is that I replaced them with something better. She insisted it was rude. Who is wrong here??? They use sponges on dishes where raw meat was, but expect me to use it next on my baby's bottle? No thanks. So I bought many more sponges.


They are tripping. Extreme hoarding is often triggered by grief so watch out. Your family can't sacrifice valuable. Weekend time to be surrounded by a hoard.


Are you kidding? I can't imagine a better use of my time than to comfort a grieving loved one. I can't believe how selfish some people are.

OP, the reaction to dihsrags and sponges is maybe exacerbated by grief, but were the potholders a memento of your Mum? Maybe a wedding gift? Something your father and your mother bought together?

In any case, I'd have to agree with the poster who said it's not your house and so you don't get to throw stuff out without asking your dad first. I am certain you mean well, you just need to fine-tune the execution part. Discuss things with him and respect his comfort zone. Your father is grieving and needs a little time to be rational again.

Btw, you and your sister are doing a great thing in taking care of him, he must be a great dad since you're willing to do this for him. Keep it up! Kudos!


Sometimes comforting is disguised as enabling. She needs to help her father take care of himself. It's sad that mom's old potholders may have become biohazards but throwing them out may be the better alternative to her father contracting a staph infection and ending up in the hospital for six weeks.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 11:15     Subject: Who is wrong here?
Anonymous wrote:Your father is using his anxiety and grief to control all of you. How long do you intend to drive 300 miles every week because he can't stand to be alone? The rest of your life? How long do you intend to live in a mausoleum/hoard/dump because the notion of throwing away a sponge is upsetting?

Can you see that this is crazy? Time for a family meeting in which you draw boundaries. It's not cruel to say that Dad needs to start learning to live his life as an adult. If he is so prostrate with grief he can't be alone, he either (1) moves (2) checks into a hospital (3) sees a therapist.


+1 He's going to hold all of you hostage here if he isn't already. A big sign that things aren't working out is filth. Watch one of the shows about hoarding. Often times the hoarder has an enabler who just wallows in the mess with them. sounds like that's the role your sister has taken up here. He needs help and your sister probably needs help as well it sounds like. If they get sick from the filth things will just get worse for all of you.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 11:00     Subject: Who is wrong here?
0324+
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 10:35     Subject: Who is wrong here?
How old is your dad, OP? How long ago did your mom pass away? Might he be open to a bereavement group?

I agree that this arrangement is unsustainable for the long-term but since it sounds like your mom just passed, I think it's reasonable to offer this kind of support as the dust settles. But ultimately you will need to develop a long-term plan, be it downsizing, connecting your dad to an adult day program in the community for activities and socialization, etc.

Is he physically independent and able to manage his activities of daily living? How is his cognition?

Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 10:04     Subject: Who is wrong here?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Your father is using his anxiety and grief to control all of you. How long do you intend to drive 300 miles every week because he can't stand to be alone? The rest of your life? How long do you intend to live in a mausoleum/hoard/dump because the notion of throwing away a sponge is upsetting?

Can you see that this is crazy? Time for a family meeting in which you draw boundaries. It's not cruel to say that Dad needs to start learning to live his life as an adult. If he is so prostrate with grief he can't be alone, he either (1) moves (2) checks into a hospital (3) sees a therapist.


You are just mean.


I may be mean but I don't devote my weekends to a Museum of Old Sponges.


I hope you've children and that they'll treat you with the same disdain when your hour of need comes.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 10:01     Subject: Who is wrong here?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My mother died recently & my father, who was married to her for 50 yrs, is beyond grieving. So my sis & I are helping however we can. My father has said he is scared to be alone in such a big house now. He asked us to visit frequently. My sister lives with him four days out of the week but has made it clear she will not be available Fridays throughSunday. My hubs & I, along with our children drive 300 miles each wkend to make sure he will not be left alone. He appreciates it very much, but lately he & my sis have started complaining about me. My family's home is very dirty. My mother was not much of a cleaner& my father never had time. I found insects in old cereal boxes and a mice behind the frig last wkend. Hubs &I have started cleaning the house. We also replaced dirty dish rags with a stack of new towels, replaced months old dish sponges with new ones. When their dishwasher broke, we replaced that too. Tonight my sister told me that she & my father are upset that I've thrown their stuff out without permission. I told her that the only things I replaced wasdish towels, sponges, and pot holders. Petty stuff but necessary since they werefilthy. The dw was our gift. She made such a big stink of it though, that I was offended. Here I am, compromising my entire family's weekends to help, & I'm being scolded for replacing dish towels & sponges & pot holders? She said it was rude to throw ANYTHING out. I said the key point shes missing is that I replaced them with something better. She insisted it was rude. Who is wrong here??? They use sponges on dishes where raw meat was, but expect me to use it next on my baby's bottle? No thanks. So I bought many more sponges.


They are tripping. Extreme hoarding is often triggered by grief so watch out. Your family can't sacrifice valuable. Weekend time to be surrounded by a hoard.


Are you kidding? I can't imagine a better use of my time than to comfort a grieving loved one. I can't believe how selfish some people are.

OP, the reaction to dihsrags and sponges is maybe exacerbated by grief, but were the potholders a memento of your Mum? Maybe a wedding gift? Something your father and your mother bought together?

In any case, I'd have to agree with the poster who said it's not your house and so you don't get to throw stuff out without asking your dad first. I am certain you mean well, you just need to fine-tune the execution part. Discuss things with him and respect his comfort zone. Your father is grieving and needs a little time to be rational again.

Btw, you and your sister are doing a great thing in taking care of him, he must be a great dad since you're willing to do this for him. Keep it up! Kudos!
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 09:56     Subject: Who is wrong here?
OP,

There is a thin line here but I think in the end fixing an unhealthy environment wins. Understandably everyone is being ridiculous because you lost a loved one and the feelings are spilling over left and right.

I would apologize to your dad for not asking him first. I would say to him that you are sorry if changing the sponges and getting a new dishwasher caused him any hard feelings. Yes it's ridiculous, but he is grieving so cut him some slack.

Secondly, when people are calm (maybe after you apologize) explain that in order to help him out and be there for him,you need to be able to make sure the house is a healthy place. Maybe you can brain storm together what needs to happen. Perhaps he is worried you will clean a special room or take away things that are important to him and needs reassurance.

I assume this is just a cleanliness issue vs a hoarding issue correct? Agree to a cleaning plan with him. And if he is disagreeable, unwilling to budge, I would draw the line. Health matters, you have to protect your family too. Let him know you are willing to help out again when he is willing to be reasonable about cleaning up the mess.

Lastly, others have chimed in, but this sounds like an impossible long term arrangement so I would suggest you set a deadline (AND STICK TO IT) for him to get house-help, a therapist, or to move to assisted living or whatever it is you think he needs. He will surely refuse all of this and it would be helpful to get your sister on board too but this arrangement cannot work long term.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 09:47     Subject: Who is wrong here?
I understand that everyone is in mourning, but this isn't a sustainable arrangement in the long term.
Had your parents ever given any thought to downsizing? If he feels lost and alone in the big house, he needs to move to a smaller place. It should be located close to either you or your sister.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 09:25     Subject: Who is wrong here?
Anonymous wrote:Your father is using his anxiety and grief to control all of you. How long do you intend to drive 300 miles every week because he can't stand to be alone? The rest of your life? How long do you intend to live in a mausoleum/hoard/dump because the notion of throwing away a sponge is upsetting?

Can you see that this is crazy? Time for a family meeting in which you draw boundaries. It's not cruel to say that Dad needs to start learning to live his life as an adult. If he is so prostrate with grief he can't be alone, he either (1) moves (2) checks into a hospital (3) sees a therapist.


This. All of this. These arrangements don't seem workable for any and all.

I'd look into a visiting angel program...a companion sitter who'll provide companionship and light housekeeping. Your dad is going to need to move on a bit in his grief. You can't be expected to fill your moms role and be there 24-7. Formulate a plan where you visit less often and tell your dad as you supportively tell him you have a companionship plan in place.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 08:57     Subject: Who is wrong here?
My uncle died in his sleep, and my aunt was furious at a well-meaning friend who changed/washed the bed linens.

Did they need to be washed? Absolutely. But they smelled like my uncle, which was comforting to my aunt, and she wanted/needed to hang on to them a little bit longer. Like you, her friend had the best intentions -- but she should have asked first, and respected my aunt's response.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 08:36     Subject: Who is wrong here?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Your father is using his anxiety and grief to control all of you. How long do you intend to drive 300 miles every week because he can't stand to be alone? The rest of your life? How long do you intend to live in a mausoleum/hoard/dump because the notion of throwing away a sponge is upsetting?

Can you see that this is crazy? Time for a family meeting in which you draw boundaries. It's not cruel to say that Dad needs to start learning to live his life as an adult. If he is so prostrate with grief he can't be alone, he either (1) moves (2) checks into a hospital (3) sees a therapist.


You are just mean.


I may be mean but I don't devote my weekends to a Museum of Old Sponges.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 08:35     Subject: Who is wrong here?
Anonymous wrote:Your father is using his anxiety and grief to control all of you. How long do you intend to drive 300 miles every week because he can't stand to be alone? The rest of your life? How long do you intend to live in a mausoleum/hoard/dump because the notion of throwing away a sponge is upsetting?

Can you see that this is crazy? Time for a family meeting in which you draw boundaries. It's not cruel to say that Dad needs to start learning to live his life as an adult. If he is so prostrate with grief he can't be alone, he either (1) moves (2) checks into a hospital (3) sees a therapist.


You are just mean.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2014 08:34     Subject: Re:Who is wrong here?
OP, If my family were driving 300 miles to accommodate my father and cleaning a filthy house and being vilified for throwing trash away, I would tell my sister to STFU and I would tell my dad to cut it out. If I am bringing my family 300 miles to accommodate you, I will be making sure it is an environment that doesn't make me gag. If you have a problem with that, enjoy your weekends alone.