Anonymous wrote:Of course you do. You're permitted to monopolize a thread. Typical.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.

That is just an Islamic term and really has been vilified by the West. We even call people who die in childbirth and car accidents martyrs. In Islam, we believe that certain types of deaths elevate the person to a certain level in the Hereafter, because of how painful or tragic the death is. The arabic term is "Shaheed". This has nothing to do with wanting to die, or suicide bombing, terrorism ect.

-The one who dies from a long disease is considered a martyr
-A pregnant woman who dies in pregnancy or while giving birth is considered a martyr
-Whoever is killed defending his property is a martyr.
-he who dies in defense of his own life is a martyr; he who dies in defense of his faith is a martyr; and he who dies in defense of his family is a martyr.
-The one who speaks to a tyrannical leader and commands and forbids him, then the latter kills him–he is a martyr
-Whoever is killed unjustly is considered a martyr.
ect....

E
So, whenever a Muslim dies in one of these ways, you will hear other Muslims call him/her "Martyr" and that is why you hear that in Palestine. Muslims believe that the highest and most honorable death is to die as a Martyr, that doesn't mean we walk around wanting to die or we want to die on a battlefield. To the contrary, like i said earlier even dying in a car accident is considered dying as a martyr. We just believe that the reward of the martyr is superior to any other in the after life, and we consider people who are killed in Palestine of having been killed unjustly, that is why you will hear people call them "Martyrs"

So basically you glorify death. That's why Hamas uses human beings as shields.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I will use this page to..."

Why is this thread one person's platform? Perhaps this sets a precedent though for the rest of us for post upon post, defending our belief of XYZ.

Good to know.

It is not a one person's platform, you are free and welcome to comment/participate/Add. I was just announcing what the purpose behind it was as it wasn't clear from my OP. I certainly do not wish to 'Occupy" DCUMom or claim the real estate behind it as my God given right

I am a strong supporter of Palestinean rights but, respectfully, you do give the appearance of 'occupying' the forum. I understand your vigilance and dedication but it does become overwhelming after awhile. I look forward to hearing a two-sided debate. It is a mistake to get information from a sole source regardless of who is 'occupying.'

Bottom line is if the moderator allows it, then his blessing is all that matters. I just hope other opposing or neutral views aren't being driven away for fear of verbal retribution. We need to hear from everybody regardless of whose side you're on.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.

That is just an Islamic term and really has been vilified by the West. We even call people who die in childbirth and car accidents martyrs. In Islam, we believe that certain types of deaths elevate the person to a certain level in the Hereafter, because of how painful or tragic the death is. The arabic term is "Shaheed". This has nothing to do with wanting to die, or suicide bombing, terrorism ect.

-The one who dies from a long disease is considered a martyr
-A pregnant woman who dies in pregnancy or while giving birth is considered a martyr
-Whoever is killed defending his property is a martyr.
-he who dies in defense of his own life is a martyr; he who dies in defense of his faith is a martyr; and he who dies in defense of his family is a martyr.
-The one who speaks to a tyrannical leader and commands and forbids him, then the latter kills him–he is a martyr
-Whoever is killed unjustly is considered a martyr.
ect....

E
So, whenever a Muslim dies in one of these ways, you will hear other Muslims call him/her "Martyr" and that is why you hear that in Palestine. Muslims believe that the highest and most honorable death is to die as a Martyr, that doesn't mean we walk around wanting to die or we want to die on a battlefield. To the contrary, like i said earlier even dying in a car accident is considered dying as a martyr. We just believe that the reward of the martyr is superior to any other in the after life, and we consider people who are killed in Palestine of having been killed unjustly, that is why you will hear people call them "Martyrs"

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I will use this page to..."

Why is this thread one person's platform? Perhaps this sets a precedent though for the rest of us for post upon post, defending our belief of XYZ.

Good to know.

It is not a one person's platform, you are free and welcome to comment/participate/Add. I was just announcing what the purpose behind it was as it wasn't clear from my OP. I certainly do not wish to 'Occupy" DCUMom or claim the real estate behind it as my God given right

Anonymous wrote:Of course you do. You're permitted to monopolize a thread. Typical.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I will use this page to..."

Why is this thread one person's platform? Perhaps this sets a precedent though for the rest of us for post upon post, defending our belief of XYZ.

Good to know.

It is not a one person's platform, you are free and welcome to comment/participate/Add. I was just announcing what the purpose behind it was as it wasn't clear from my OP. I certainly do not with to 'Occupy" DCUMom or claim the real estate behind it as my God given right

Perhaps you need a blog.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I will use this page to..."

Why is this thread one person's platform? Perhaps this sets a precedent though for the rest of us for post upon post, defending our belief of XYZ.

Good to know.

It is not a one person's platform, you are free and welcome to comment/participate/Add. I was just announcing what the purpose behind it was as it wasn't clear from my OP. I certainly do not with to 'Occupy" DCUMom or claim the real estate behind it as my God given right

Anonymous wrote:"I will use this page to..."

Why is this thread one person's platform? Perhaps this sets a precedent though for the rest of us for post upon post, defending our belief of XYZ.

Good to know.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.

Totally agree. People who eagerly and willingly engage in war can't turn around and say how horrible war is. If you are against war, don't engage in war.

A man once said "Give me liberty, or give me death!" and urged the local population to launch an armed rebellion in order to seek independence from an unwanted occupier. That man, Patrick Henry, later became the governor of Virginia and is honored as one of America's esteemed founding fathers. To think that those lost in America's war of independence might be considered nothing but "currency in trade".

I think this kind of misses the point of the question, which Muslima actually addressed.

I don't recall reading that Patrick Henry extolled the deaths of young children as part of the cost of doing battle with the British. My question was directed at trying to understand what the term "martyrs" means in the context of the conflict in Gaza. The explanation was that, while it is an honorific, it shouldn't be understood or portrayed as always meaning that a death is a cause for celebration, as opposed to respect or veneration. Those who have watched the destruction in Gaza intuitively knew this must be the case, but Muslima addressed the underlying issue, which is that sometimes words mean different things to different people.