Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so that's why everyone is dying to take Algebra in 7th-- so the child can take it again in summer school or 8th? Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until the child is ready?

I don't think this is why everyone wants to take algebra in 7th grade, but there is a good-sized subset of people who have their kids take courses outside the school system and then re-take them in school so they can get an A. It's kind of crazy, because the grades are then not truly representative of the child's ability in the subject.

This is very true. It actually affects the other students and the teaching of the class. My dc was in an FCPS 7th grade Algebra class where many of the students reported having taken Algebra before (Kumon, CTY, tutors, etc). The teacher really didn't teach because he felt that everyone knew the material anyway, and the few who had not yet taken Algebra were struggling.

I think it depends on the students. My DC and his friends did not take any prep courses and got A's. There are some students who do not need the prep classes to do well in math. Anecdotal, of course (like your experience too). I don't know about anyone else. I don't know of any data collection on this so I don't know how you can say that students that did not take any prep classes do poorly in the 7th grade Algebra I. Teachers don't keep track of which students took what before their class.

The only MS grades that can be expunged are the classes considered HS classes and that count for HS credit and towards the HS GPA. Many times kids take these classes and then realize (in retrospect) that they were not actually ready for the content or the pace. So these are Algebra, Geometry, and the language classes.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/schoolcounseling/documents/ExpungingGradesinMS.pdf

If the grade is expunged, they don't get the grade or the credit. So if a MSer takes Algebra, has the grade expunged, but does not re-take Algebra and goes on to take Geometry and continues from there, they do not have that Algebra credit on their HS record. So to have 4 HS math credits, they will need to take an "extra" math credit to replace Algebra.

As to whether or not I would expunge, I think it's complicated and as the parent I would want more information. How did the student do on the final? On the Algebra SOL? If they did well on those, then I probably wouldn't expunge or re-take. Did they start off getting an A and then grades fell off as the year went on? (I would probably have kid re-take the class in that case.) Or were they always a B student? Was there a particular issue? Did they not turn in homework? Did they do poorly on tests? Did they bomb the final, but do OK in the rest of the class?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why the heck are parents allowed to expunge grades? I hadn't heard of this. It's questionable at best!

Why is this questionable? Seems perfectly reasonable to me. If an 8th grader takes a foreign language or Algebra I for the first time and doesn't do well (even though they were advised to take said class!), then they should have the option of expunging and trying again in 9th grade. The opportunity is open to all students, so it's not like some are able to take advantage of it and others aren't.

If there is an allowance for parents to keep or toss a grade then the MS grades should not be counted toward the high school GPA in the first place. The middle school math/language classes should be seen as a step up to higher classes in HS but the grades should not move past middle school.

They are high school classes and they count toward graduation requirements, so that is why the grades count.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why the heck are parents allowed to expunge grades? I hadn't heard of this. It's questionable at best!

Why is this questionable? Seems perfectly reasonable to me. If an 8th grader takes a foreign language or Algebra I for the first time and doesn't do well (even though they were advised to take said class!), then they should have the option of expunging and trying again in 9th grade. The opportunity is open to all students, so it's not like some are able to take advantage of it and others aren't.

If there is an allowance for parents to keep or toss a grade then the MS grades should not be counted toward the high school GPA in the first place. The middle school math/language classes should be seen as a step up to higher classes in HS but the grades should not move past middle school.

Anonymous wrote:Why the heck are parents allowed to expunge grades? I hadn't heard of this. It's questionable at best!

Why is this questionable? Seems perfectly reasonable to me. If an 8th grader takes a foreign language or Algebra I for the first time and doesn't do well (even though they were advised to take said class!), then they should have the option of expunging and trying again in 9th grade. The opportunity is open to all students, so it's not like some are able to take advantage of it and others aren't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:no, we've been over this before, and before that - - if the course counts for HS credit, the grade is factored into the GPA to colleges (FCPS anyway)

Not if you tell the school to expunge the grade. Then it's gone and there is no record whatsoever of it on the child's transcript, GPA, etc. We just did this for DC's 8th grade Algebra; grade was a C.

Will your DC take it over again or go straight to Geometry?

DC will be taking it over in 9th grade. We want to make sure DC has all the concepts down solid before moving to Geometry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so that's why everyone is dying to take Algebra in 7th-- so the child can take it again in summer school or 8th? Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until the child is ready?

I don't think this is why everyone wants to take algebra in 7th grade, but there is a good-sized subset of people who have their kids take courses outside the school system and then re-take them in school so they can get an A. It's kind of crazy, because the grades are then not truly representative of the child's ability in the subject.

This is very true. It actually affects the other students and the teaching of the class. My dc was in an FCPS 7th grade Algebra class where many of the students reported having taken Algebra before (Kumon, CTY, tutors, etc). The teacher really didn't teach because he felt that everyone knew the material anyway, and the few who had not yet taken Algebra were struggling.

It might have been worthwhile to contact the teacher and let him know that your child was taking it for the first time.

It seems that people are trying to set things up so the kids get higher grades on what appears on the record to be their first time taking the class. I would think if the child were truly ready for the class, they'd be bored the second time around, and if they are not ready, it would make more sense to allow the child to take age-appropriate math.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is a 0.0 higher than a 3.0?

Assuming the kid usually gets A or A- in all her/his other classes, a B or B+ would drag his gpa down somewhat

Isn't it highly possible that if a kid usually gets As in all other classes that maybe math just isn't their strongest subject and will be a B regardless?

I got a B in 8th grade Algebra and didn't expunge (don't even know if that was possible back in the dark ages when I went to FCPS). Wound up getting straight A's in high school, and -- due to AP classes weighted an extra .5 -- still got higher than a 4.0. And it turned out that my 8th grade Algebra teacher was pretty crappy, as I figured out when I wound up acing the rest of math through high school, including AP Calc.

OP, I wouldn't worry about expunging a grade unless (as a PP said) it was a C.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so that's why everyone is dying to take Algebra in 7th-- so the child can take it again in summer school or 8th? Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until the child is ready?

I don't think this is why everyone wants to take algebra in 7th grade, but there is a good-sized subset of people who have their kids take courses outside the school system and then re-take them in school so they can get an A. It's kind of crazy, because the grades are then not truly representative of the child's ability in the subject.

This is very true. It actually affects the other students and the teaching of the class. My dc was in an FCPS 7th grade Algebra class where many of the students reported having taken Algebra before (Kumon, CTY, tutors, etc). The teacher really didn't teach because he felt that everyone knew the material anyway, and the few who had not yet taken Algebra were struggling.

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so that's why everyone is dying to take Algebra in 7th-- so the child can take it again in summer school or 8th? Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until the child is ready?

I don't think this is why everyone wants to take algebra in 7th grade, but there is a good-sized subset of people who have their kids take courses outside the school system and then re-take them in school so they can get an A. It's kind of crazy, because the grades are then not truly representative of the child's ability in the subject.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:no, we've been over this before, and before that - - if the course counts for HS credit, the grade is factored into the GPA to colleges (FCPS anyway)

Not if you tell the school to expunge the grade. Then it's gone and there is no record whatsoever of it on the child's transcript, GPA, etc. We just did this for DC's 8th grade Algebra; grade was a C.

Will your DC take it over again or go straight to Geometry?

Why the heck are parents allowed to expunge grades? I hadn't heard of this. It's questionable at best!