Anonymous
06/25/2014 19:10
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
NP here. I wanted to thank the previous poster for a thoughtful and sensitive response. I have personal experience with an extended family member doing exactly what the OP is concerned about, showing up on the doorstep out of the blue. Even when there's absolutely no threat of anything violent, it can throw your life into utter disarray, and force you into choices you hoped you'd never have to make. Best of luck to you, OP.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 18:11
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
Hi OP. I have 2 MI family members, both get mildly paranoid in certain stages of their MI. I too occasionally wonder if one would ever get violent, but I doubt it, so I kind of understand you're worry, although I think you are really extrapolating a little far with it. It seems doubtful to me that your FIL would just show up out of the blue and his paranoia doesn't seem violent or directed at you or your DH in any way. I don't think what happened when your DH was young and the family was in the throes of the divorce process is very applicable to your current situation.
I do understand your reluctance to have family members provide more information to him. I really think the only way to solve that problem is to either not provide such information to family members whom you think have been indiscreet or have an explicit conversation with them and ask them not to provide anything beyond the most basic info to the grandad (i.e., yes, I hear the baby is big and healthy).
FWIW, I would strongly encourage you to get educated. You have married into a family with a history of mental illness and this means that, although the chances are small, your DH and your children are also at risk for illness, and you all have to cope with a relationship with an MI family member. NAMI offers a wonderful 12 week Family to Family class to help family members of the mentally ill understand the 5 major illnesses, symptoms, treatment, burden on family, etc. You and your DH should take it together. It will do much to help him understand his father's behavior and how it affected his childhood. NAMI also runs support groups for family members.
You also should get your own therapist who works with people with mood disorders and schizophrenia - not because you are ill but because you (and your DH) need someone at least occasionally to help guide you in this relationship with is father. I say this because you are veering into dangerous territory thinking a lot about how to protect your DH from the pain of his relationship with his father. While this is understandable, it is not healthy. One of the best things I did for myself was to get a therapist who could help me understand my family member's illness and help me think about what I should and shouldn't do in certain situations and how to cope with worries. This is a difficult situation and one in which most of the people you typically use as sounding boards (friends, family) will be at best not knowledgeable enough to help and at worst, offer dangerous, counter-productive suggestions.
I also recommend 2 great books -- "I'm not Sick, I don't need help" by Xavier Amador and Burden of Sympathy: How Families Cope with Mental Illness. Amador writes a lot about anosogonia (the lack of realization that oneself is ill) and how to talk to MI family members about illness and treatment in a way that is productive. Karp writes about the moral dilemmas of the relationship with the MI family member.
I do understand your reluctance to have family members provide more information to him. I really think the only way to solve that problem is to either not provide such information to family members whom you think have been indiscreet or have an explicit conversation with them and ask them not to provide anything beyond the most basic info to the grandad (i.e., yes, I hear the baby is big and healthy).
FWIW, I would strongly encourage you to get educated. You have married into a family with a history of mental illness and this means that, although the chances are small, your DH and your children are also at risk for illness, and you all have to cope with a relationship with an MI family member. NAMI offers a wonderful 12 week Family to Family class to help family members of the mentally ill understand the 5 major illnesses, symptoms, treatment, burden on family, etc. You and your DH should take it together. It will do much to help him understand his father's behavior and how it affected his childhood. NAMI also runs support groups for family members.
You also should get your own therapist who works with people with mood disorders and schizophrenia - not because you are ill but because you (and your DH) need someone at least occasionally to help guide you in this relationship with is father. I say this because you are veering into dangerous territory thinking a lot about how to protect your DH from the pain of his relationship with his father. While this is understandable, it is not healthy. One of the best things I did for myself was to get a therapist who could help me understand my family member's illness and help me think about what I should and shouldn't do in certain situations and how to cope with worries. This is a difficult situation and one in which most of the people you typically use as sounding boards (friends, family) will be at best not knowledgeable enough to help and at worst, offer dangerous, counter-productive suggestions.
I also recommend 2 great books -- "I'm not Sick, I don't need help" by Xavier Amador and Burden of Sympathy: How Families Cope with Mental Illness. Amador writes a lot about anosogonia (the lack of realization that oneself is ill) and how to talk to MI family members about illness and treatment in a way that is productive. Karp writes about the moral dilemmas of the relationship with the MI family member.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 17:41
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
Anonymous wrote:OP, I would be concerned too. This is not a random stranger on the street. There is a connection with you, your DH, your new baby and this mentally ill person.
Why hasn't your DH seen his father? Maybe you can meet on neutral ground. Not all mentally ill people are harmful and you might be relieved to actually meet him and find out he's harmless.
I wouldn't try to meet up with him. I wouldn't do anything to attract his attention. He's probably totally harmless but the information you have just tells you he's not rational. So I wouldn't make any other assumptions.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 17:39
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
You are really doing more harm than good. Actually, you're doing 100% harm and 0% good.
Why would your FIL's paranoia translate into aggressive behavior towards your son?
If FIL has no history of physical or verbal aggression towards his son and you, there is just the same risk he would attack you as any stranger off the street would. Which is to say, extremely low.
Do you understand this simple fact?
yes, I do. Jeez. I am just asking.
Who am I harming exactly? He has a minor history of verbal aggression against his boys when they were young (again, they haven't seen him since they were pre-teens) and I know one time he was really rough with DH's brother. This was all pretty close to the divorce/
The only (I ADMIT UNLIKELY) scenario I could ever see is if he just showed up one day. He did this to DH aunt when he moved to his current state about 6 years ago from the state DH grew up in. If I were alone I wouldn't feel comfy letting him in to my home with just me and DS. I wouldn't let any stranger in my home if it were just me and the baby, so I don't think that's so overly cautious. All intents and purposes, he is a stranger to me and DH. I just would be worried in that scenario that he could read that as a slight or as an act of aggression/ provocation, which is pretty much what all the abstracts/studies I have been able to do with a quick google search is the antecedent for violent tendencies with those who have PPD or similar. I know that such diagnoses DO NOT mean a person is violent or more violent.
That's seriously the only scenario I could be worried about.
Please stop trying to paint me with some brush of "OP is a bitch who wishes her DH father would just go away and has prejudice against mental illness" just so you can be antagonistic online.
Its not the case. I just wanted someplace to get these thoughts and get feedback- and I appreciate those who are giving it without working out whatever they are projecting on to me.
People think you're being prejudiced, because you're discussing his mental illness in terms that are unfair. You are freaking out about a guy who has never shown up at your house unannounced. He has little contact with your DH. He hasn't shown interest in visiting. Despite this, you are freaking out. Your concern is over the top.
She's not being prejudice. Prejudice is judging someone before knowing them. She's judging this person based on what she knows of him -- his letters, his history with her DH. Fine to point out that he hasn't done these things before and therefore he's unlikely to do them. But no need to jump down her throat. I think plenty of families have someone with a mental illness that they downplay. Sometimes that doesn't end well.
This man has made no threat to her. He is talking to her about his grandchild. He is not even in the same city as she is.
Being that afraid of him is both bigoted and ignorant.
That's ridiculous. Not the OP, but gaslighting someone because she has concerns about a family member's erratic behavior, or calling her bigoted, is just ridiculous.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 17:20
Subject: Re:Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
Anonymous wrote:OP Read the Gift of Fear. One thing is says is not to draw the attention of a crazy person. So leave your FIL alone and let him hate the CIA, not you. Don't stir the pot.
This is good advice.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 17:11
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Granted I only have a way-back-in-the-day minor in psych, but I think I'm pretty even-keeled when looking at mental illness and not knee-jerk or working solely from a misconception from TV or stereotypes or the like.
But I get very worried sometimes about a situation I am in. My DH is estranged from his bio dad. He saw him last around 14 or so (he's mid 30s). They come from a very sort of stoic "everything is ok" family. As such we say that his dad "has his issues" or "is intense" or the like. Its pretty damn clear to me that he very likely suffers from paranoid personality disorder, I don't know if that is in conjunction with any hallucinations/ schizophrenia or other clinical disorders. I have no idea if he has ever been diagnosed, I finally think I feel like I have the courage to ask MIL this or if he's been diagnosed but refused help.
The list of his behaviors that I've been told about pretty much line up with DSM-IV and what makes it more likely, in my mind, is the occasional 1 every year or so card that we get from him for my husband. The 1st paragraph is always "I hear you are doing well" type pleasantries and within a couple of sentences it devolves into a truly paranoid diatribe about the nation and world crumbling, the organizations that are taking over (CIA, watching and the like), how groups will be out to get you, etc.
We got one yesterday.
The reason that it gets me so much more now is that we have a baby. He says congrats about the baby and references a picture he saw of him. Which would have come from his sister, DH aunt, most likely as no one else has contact. We don't really have a relationship with his aunt and uncle beyond xmas cards- but they are very nice people.
He is several states away but doesn't hold a job or anything, so could easily just pick up and try to get here without anyone noticing he is gone for some time. I have these fears about him just showing up. I don't know if he is dangerous, but I also don't know that I'm willing to give any benefit of the doubt when even the slimmest possibility of something happening involves my son! He clearly knows our address.
I know the odds are truly slim that he would ever come to us or that even if he did that anything bad would come of it. But I do think about it. My husband tries to let it roll off his back but I can tell that its upsetting to get notes like that. Whenever he gets one I hate it- I've even been able to intercept them a couple of times and given him notice that I have it so he can open it when he wants to- which he could anyway, but I think it feels more automatic when you are the one opening the mail to just open right then.
I plan to let his aunt and uncle know that we aren't comfortable with him having this surrogate relationship with our son in his head. I'm tempted to tell them that we don't want any contact (this is DH's wish too) going forward and they need to tell him that we moved/ can't write us at that address. I feel like they kind of owe us that since they didn't have permission to give details about our son/our lives in the first place. But I know that sounds pretty entitled and angry.
I love my DH so much, my son fiercely. I guess my protective instincts kicked up even more when I became a mom.
Looks like DH chose someone just like dear old dad for his life partner. Seriously chill.
I think that I am inclined to agree with this.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 17:09
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
OP, I would be concerned too. This is not a random stranger on the street. There is a connection with you, your DH, your new baby and this mentally ill person.
Why hasn't your DH seen his father? Maybe you can meet on neutral ground. Not all mentally ill people are harmful and you might be relieved to actually meet him and find out he's harmless.
Why hasn't your DH seen his father? Maybe you can meet on neutral ground. Not all mentally ill people are harmful and you might be relieved to actually meet him and find out he's harmless.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 17:08
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
You are really doing more harm than good. Actually, you're doing 100% harm and 0% good.
Why would your FIL's paranoia translate into aggressive behavior towards your son?
If FIL has no history of physical or verbal aggression towards his son and you, there is just the same risk he would attack you as any stranger off the street would. Which is to say, extremely low.
Do you understand this simple fact?
yes, I do. Jeez. I am just asking.
Who am I harming exactly? He has a minor history of verbal aggression against his boys when they were young (again, they haven't seen him since they were pre-teens) and I know one time he was really rough with DH's brother. This was all pretty close to the divorce/
The only (I ADMIT UNLIKELY) scenario I could ever see is if he just showed up one day. He did this to DH aunt when he moved to his current state about 6 years ago from the state DH grew up in. If I were alone I wouldn't feel comfy letting him in to my home with just me and DS. I wouldn't let any stranger in my home if it were just me and the baby, so I don't think that's so overly cautious. All intents and purposes, he is a stranger to me and DH. I just would be worried in that scenario that he could read that as a slight or as an act of aggression/ provocation, which is pretty much what all the abstracts/studies I have been able to do with a quick google search is the antecedent for violent tendencies with those who have PPD or similar. I know that such diagnoses DO NOT mean a person is violent or more violent.
That's seriously the only scenario I could be worried about.
Please stop trying to paint me with some brush of "OP is a bitch who wishes her DH father would just go away and has prejudice against mental illness" just so you can be antagonistic online.
Its not the case. I just wanted someplace to get these thoughts and get feedback- and I appreciate those who are giving it without working out whatever they are projecting on to me.
People think you're being prejudiced, because you're discussing his mental illness in terms that are unfair. You are freaking out about a guy who has never shown up at your house unannounced. He has little contact with your DH. He hasn't shown interest in visiting. Despite this, you are freaking out. Your concern is over the top.
She's not being prejudice. Prejudice is judging someone before knowing them. She's judging this person based on what she knows of him -- his letters, his history with her DH. Fine to point out that he hasn't done these things before and therefore he's unlikely to do them. But no need to jump down her throat. I think plenty of families have someone with a mental illness that they downplay. Sometimes that doesn't end well.
This man has made no threat to her. He is talking to her about his grandchild. He is not even in the same city as she is.
Being that afraid of him is both bigoted and ignorant.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 17:06
Subject: Re:Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
OP Read the Gift of Fear. One thing is says is not to draw the attention of a crazy person. So leave your FIL alone and let him hate the CIA, not you. Don't stir the pot.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 17:04
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
Anonymous wrote:Granted I only have a way-back-in-the-day minor in psych, but I think I'm pretty even-keeled when looking at mental illness and not knee-jerk or working solely from a misconception from TV or stereotypes or the like.
But I get very worried sometimes about a situation I am in. My DH is estranged from his bio dad. He saw him last around 14 or so (he's mid 30s). They come from a very sort of stoic "everything is ok" family. As such we say that his dad "has his issues" or "is intense" or the like. Its pretty damn clear to me that he very likely suffers from paranoid personality disorder, I don't know if that is in conjunction with any hallucinations/ schizophrenia or other clinical disorders. I have no idea if he has ever been diagnosed, I finally think I feel like I have the courage to ask MIL this or if he's been diagnosed but refused help.
The list of his behaviors that I've been told about pretty much line up with DSM-IV and what makes it more likely, in my mind, is the occasional 1 every year or so card that we get from him for my husband. The 1st paragraph is always "I hear you are doing well" type pleasantries and within a couple of sentences it devolves into a truly paranoid diatribe about the nation and world crumbling, the organizations that are taking over (CIA, watching and the like), how groups will be out to get you, etc.
We got one yesterday.
The reason that it gets me so much more now is that we have a baby. He says congrats about the baby and references a picture he saw of him. Which would have come from his sister, DH aunt, most likely as no one else has contact. We don't really have a relationship with his aunt and uncle beyond xmas cards- but they are very nice people.
He is several states away but doesn't hold a job or anything, so could easily just pick up and try to get here without anyone noticing he is gone for some time. I have these fears about him just showing up. I don't know if he is dangerous, but I also don't know that I'm willing to give any benefit of the doubt when even the slimmest possibility of something happening involves my son! He clearly knows our address.
I know the odds are truly slim that he would ever come to us or that even if he did that anything bad would come of it. But I do think about it. My husband tries to let it roll off his back but I can tell that its upsetting to get notes like that. Whenever he gets one I hate it- I've even been able to intercept them a couple of times and given him notice that I have it so he can open it when he wants to- which he could anyway, but I think it feels more automatic when you are the one opening the mail to just open right then.
I plan to let his aunt and uncle know that we aren't comfortable with him having this surrogate relationship with our son in his head. I'm tempted to tell them that we don't want any contact (this is DH's wish too) going forward and they need to tell him that we moved/ can't write us at that address. I feel like they kind of owe us that since they didn't have permission to give details about our son/our lives in the first place. But I know that sounds pretty entitled and angry.
I love my DH so much, my son fiercely. I guess my protective instincts kicked up even more when I became a mom.
Looks like DH chose someone just like dear old dad for his life partner. Seriously chill.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 17:01
Subject: Re:Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
OP has paranoia issues of her own or she is a troll. No one imagines this kind of danger otherwise.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 15:14
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
OP I don't know if this will ease your worry at all but I live in a heavy homeless area. MANY of them are mentally unwell. I also have a daughter. Without exception, they ALL pull themselves together when she walks by. They tone down the rambling, pull up their pants, try to interact with her in a normal way. I see this all over the city. The Crazies know they're crazy and hold it in around kids.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 14:28
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
Anonymous wrote:In before the "READ THE GIFT OF FEAR!" posters.
Um, but seriously, OP, read The Gift Of Fear.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 14:28
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
You are really doing more harm than good. Actually, you're doing 100% harm and 0% good.
Why would your FIL's paranoia translate into aggressive behavior towards your son?
If FIL has no history of physical or verbal aggression towards his son and you, there is just the same risk he would attack you as any stranger off the street would. Which is to say, extremely low.
Do you understand this simple fact?
yes, I do. Jeez. I am just asking.
Who am I harming exactly? He has a minor history of verbal aggression against his boys when they were young (again, they haven't seen him since they were pre-teens) and I know one time he was really rough with DH's brother. This was all pretty close to the divorce/
The only (I ADMIT UNLIKELY) scenario I could ever see is if he just showed up one day. He did this to DH aunt when he moved to his current state about 6 years ago from the state DH grew up in. If I were alone I wouldn't feel comfy letting him in to my home with just me and DS. I wouldn't let any stranger in my home if it were just me and the baby, so I don't think that's so overly cautious. All intents and purposes, he is a stranger to me and DH. I just would be worried in that scenario that he could read that as a slight or as an act of aggression/ provocation, which is pretty much what all the abstracts/studies I have been able to do with a quick google search is the antecedent for violent tendencies with those who have PPD or similar. I know that such diagnoses DO NOT mean a person is violent or more violent.
That's seriously the only scenario I could be worried about.
Please stop trying to paint me with some brush of "OP is a bitch who wishes her DH father would just go away and has prejudice against mental illness" just so you can be antagonistic online.
Its not the case. I just wanted someplace to get these thoughts and get feedback- and I appreciate those who are giving it without working out whatever they are projecting on to me.
I'm PP you quoted.
You are wasting your time and energy on this non-issue, because the person in question has not exhibited violent behavior towards you or anyone else (minor verbal aggression? I don't think you realize what aggression really means!).
You can be worried FOR your FIL, who might run his mouth off to the wrong person and endanger himself.
You shouldn't be worried for you.
My perspective - I have quirky or mentally ill family members and in-laws, none of which are violent. While I do not have a psych degree (actually I'm a research scientist), I have enough common sense to separate different kinds of quirky behaviors and not freak out over every one.
Methinks first-time mother hormones are getting to you. Calm down and get on with your life. If ever FIL comes, don't open the door.
Anonymous
06/25/2014 14:16
Subject: Mentally ill estranged family member - how much should I be worried?
I understand your concerns, having had worries about mentally-ill family members who've aggressed in various ways against others and me. It helps to identify and address vulnerabilities. Once you've done that, do yourself the kindness of living your life to the fullest, and not giving that person any more power over you.