Anonymous wrote:tyler cowen would say your kid is fucked and would be better apprenticing in a garage/mechanic.

While america's commitment to college access is commendable I do wonder if the europeans had the right system all along considering the hollowing out of 'middle-skill undergrad degree holder' jobs.

perhaps the europeans were right all along in making college affordable but restricting entry and then having apprenticeships for non-college track students.

It also probably helps that in european countries the 'college premium' for wages isn't as big of gap so the market signals don't force parents to send all kids to college.

This thinking seems upside down to me. It's missing some key context, which is that Europe has less income inequality than the US (for a variety of reasons that would make for a very long digression, so I won't go there). So the European system, which limits access to higher education, isn't building in quite as much income inequality as would happen if the same limits on higher education were implemented here. By contrast, there was an article just today, or maybe yesterday, in the Post citing research about the growing income gap in the US between high school-educated and college educated workers. So in the US, a college education is key for getting a good income, and restricting access to college would reinforce income inequality in this country.

While I like that European governments subsidize their universities more than we do, the limits on access mean that the privileged few are benefiting from these state subsidies.

I don't get your point about the "hollowing out of middle-skill undergrad degree holder jobs." It's true that more jobs require a master's degree these days. But that's no reason to shut people out of getting the prerequisite BA degree.

How are his SAT scores? Many bright ADD kids do poorly with the day-to-day but do well on standardized tests. If he is like that, try to find a four-year school that will take him based on test performance/potential and provide some ongoing support. Enlist help from a placement counselor who knows how to help place LD kids. Look into the possibility of having him start at a four year school as a non-degree candidate with the option to transfer to a degree program if he makes a certain GPA. If he is bright but not applying himself, you might be surprised by what he can pull off outside the constraints of high school and in an academic area that interests him.

I was a poor high school student due to undiagnosed ADD(technically still undiagnosed but quite obvious to me now), which was exacerbated by typical high school distractions--mostly an acute interest in my social life and ongoing power struggles with my mother. I got into a decent, middle-tier state university based on test scores and graduated with honors. I think I just needed the new academic challenges and freedoms that a four-year school provided to start making grades a priority. I later went on to a top tier grad program. I often felt like I had to work hard to fight my natural tendency to get distracted, but it's easier to fight ADD when you can study things you're interested in. Also, ADD types often do better with assessments once or twice each semester rather than the daily quizzes and homework assignments that come with many high school and community college models.

I would avoid community college if the kid is bright but underperforming. The lack of challenge and possibly some embarrassment (depending on what his peers will be doing) may cause him to check out from academics even further than he already has.

If parents have the money, kids are better off going to college no matter what job (blue/white collar) they ultimately pursue.

tyler cowen would say your kid is fucked and would be better apprenticing in a garage/mechanic.

While america's commitment to college access is commendable I do wonder if the europeans had the right system all along considering the hollowing out of 'middle-skill undergrad degree holder' jobs.

perhaps the europeans were right all along in making college affordable but restricting entry and then having apprenticeships for non-college track students.

It also probably helps that in european countries the 'college premium' for wages isn't as big of gap so the market signals don't force parents to send all kids to college.

I posted about - Colleges that are easy to get into, may be hard to get out of . I do encourage large state publics. Know what courses are required for the any probable major, and do an honest assessment of the likelihood of success.

If it helps, my brother was a c student, parents said go to the local regional U and live at home, he saved all summer and sent himself to the he big state school and hour away. made straight As, and my parents began paying second semester. He graduated with a 3.9. BUT he is a huge exception and had a lot riding on proving himself (all the money he was spending - this was the 80s when it was conceivable to save tuition and room and board in a summer of hard work).

The key is that your son flips the switch. If he doesn't, I agree that big state schools and community colleges are not a good answer (he'll fall through the cracks).

Anonymous wrote:Don't send him somewhere you can't afford to be full pay. "C" students, students with a 2.0 graduate from college, but maybe not if they run out of money because they don't meet the financial aid/merit aid gpa.

Colleges that are easy to get into, may be hard to get out of. Study the online undergraduate catalogue - I'd say that is the most important thing. Know what classes - exactly - he would need to take for different majors. He may be able to avoid an advanced math and a foreign language requirements with some majors which is a godsend for weaker students. Colleges vary widely.

I agree with this. I was similar in HS, grades not quite as low but high SAT scores. Went to a large easy to get into state school and nearly flunked out. Big state schools don't coddle. I'd aim for smaller schools where teachers notice that you're not in class.

Don't send him somewhere you can't afford to be full pay. "C" students, students with a 2.0 graduate from college, but maybe not if they run out of money because they don't meet the financial aid/merit aid gpa.

Colleges that are easy to get into, may be hard to get out of. Study the online undergraduate catalogue - I'd say that is the most important thing. Know what classes - exactly - he would need to take for different majors. He may be able to avoid an advanced math and a foreign language requirements with some majors which is a godsend for weaker students. Colleges vary widely.

Being president!!

I don't usually like community college, but I think your child needs to prove first that they can even do college work. So try CC and use good grades as the carrot for letting child go to a 4 year college.

OP here, thanks for all the suggestions. We will definitely check out the options posted here.

does he want to go away to school. Marymount University in Arlington would probably accept him. But more important, the faculty are very hands on, and so he has a chance of being successful there. Many students who would flunk out at George Mason thrive at Marymount because of the close attention. It's a place where I've seen previous marginal students shine. (I teach there and love it)

But unless he is engaged in his learning, he is likely to flounder in college. Bright, engaged students with bad work habits will make it in college. Disengaged students with bad work habits become part of the 50% who don't finish, even at schools like Marymount that lavish attention and time on students.

What year is he... Sophomore ?

What is his course load... I think moco front loads too much hoping the kids will take multiple AP classes. Maybe you can lighten the load next year.

Also, if you can just get the minimum requirements done he can take mont college classes as a senior.

Probably not Towson or Goucher.
Definitely look at Stevenson.

Anonymous wrote:How many final grades of a D are we talking about?

I'd like to suggest a 4 yr school. If he gets in, let him go. Community College can be a black hole. However, depends on how many "D's"

Is this DD a him?

I agree with this.

I read here all the time that if your kid struggled in HS, you should just send them to Community College because then admissions to a top state school is "guaranteed". In reality those guarantees come with very strict G.P.A. requirements, and the reality is that a kid who struggled with ADHD and school performance in HS will likely become a student who struggles with the same things in college.

I do think that Community College can be a fantastic resource for a dedicated student who has low grades because of an issue that is now fixed (e.g. a student who came to this country a few years ago and needed time to learn English, or a student who had major medical issues that are now resolved), or a stronger student for whom going away to college isn't an option due to either finances or family commitments. But for a kid like the OP's, if you've got the option, then I'd look at small schools, either private or public, that have good student support services, and where there isn't the pressure to have a perfect GPA for transfer because they're already admitted to a Bachelor's program.

Some schools in that category to consider (but really there are a ton, these are just the ones I know off the top of my head)

Chatham
Colby-Sawyer
Curry
Dean
Mount Ida
Stevenson
West Virginia Wesleyan