Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP-- you sound like an idiot. I'm hot--but I have a graduate degree in Molecular Biology. Looks May have for me noticed, but anyone worth keeping is looking for brains and humor too. DH is hot and HATES dumb women. He has very low tolerance for dumb.

Having a graduate degree doesn't make you virtuous. It doesn't even signal that you are particularly bright. It means that you had enough money and persistence to make it through a bit more school. In DC don't think you can flash a master's degree and inspire reverence. Most women that I know here have at least a master's degree.

Just like beauty, intelligence is a gift of nature worth treasuring. Know this: If you are substantially smarter than other women, it's because you hit the genetic jackpot and had the advantage of a nurturing educational environment.

Before you decide take another verbal dump on "dumb" people, maybe you should consider whether you can morally justify such behavior. You aren't going to get into Heaven any faster because you know how to grow organisms in a petri dish. But you might add some happiness to the world by treating all people, even those you believe to be "dumb," with respect.

Actually, I would argue that this is not true. You can actually do a great deal to improve your intellect. Just like you can work out and build strength in the body, you can do brain activities, read, study, et cetera, to improve and strengthen your mind. Even learning disabilities can be worked on and greatly improved.

Just reading a lot improves your vocabulary and your knowledge base. I would say there's a lot more you can do to improve your mind than improve beauty (and when I use the word beauty, I'm not talking about physical fitness).

I would also argue that a graduate degree takes more than money. There are plenty of wealthy people who struggled to finish even undergraduate because they didn't do the work and kept failing classes. There is some effort and diligence involved in seeing a degree program through to the end.

Some effort and diligence is required. But no more so than, say, performing work for which an employed worker is compensated.

A graduate degree is just a means to a self-serving end, and those with the means to obtain an advanced diploma haven't shown that they are any more productive than a person who has to work. The U.S. educational system's design helps the "haves" gain even more. Plus, they get the opportunity to pat themselves on the back for persevering through the grad school.

I disagree. pursuing a long-term goal, like a degree, that doesn't pay immediately is very different than working at a job for which you get compensated immediately. People who keep at it for a few years to get a degree, during which time they are not getting paid, have to have a sense of discipline, delayed gratification, and diligence.

Having a degree shows that you can see a long-term goal through to the end, even if it means you don't see a reward for a long time. That makes a difference to employers, especially employers who are looking for employees who are going to be working on projects that don't have immediate payouts or successes, that take time and require patience.

There are people I know who dropped out of college. They gave the argument you are making about "it doesn't mean anything." But the truth is those people didn't have the patience or diligence to finish their coursework and complete their degree. They wanted immediate gratification. They wanted to see immediate returns on any effort they made.

I think they were smart enough to get a degree, but they didn't have the discipline to keep at it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP-- you sound like an idiot. I'm hot--but I have a graduate degree in Molecular Biology. Looks May have for me noticed, but anyone worth keeping is looking for brains and humor too. DH is hot and HATES dumb women. He has very low tolerance for dumb.

Having a graduate degree doesn't make you virtuous. It doesn't even signal that you are particularly bright. It means that you had enough money and persistence to make it through a bit more school. In DC don't think you can flash a master's degree and inspire reverence. Most women that I know here have at least a master's degree.

Just like beauty, intelligence is a gift of nature worth treasuring. Know this: If you are substantially smarter than other women, it's because you hit the genetic jackpot and had the advantage of a nurturing educational environment.

Before you decide take another verbal dump on "dumb" people, maybe you should consider whether you can morally justify such behavior. You aren't going to get into Heaven any faster because you know how to grow organisms in a petri dish. But you might add some happiness to the world by treating all people, even those you believe to be "dumb," with respect.

Actually, I would argue that this is not true. You can actually do a great deal to improve your intellect. Just like you can work out and build strength in the body, you can do brain activities, read, study, et cetera, to improve and strengthen your mind. Even learning disabilities can be worked on and greatly improved.

Just reading a lot improves your vocabulary and your knowledge base. I would say there's a lot more you can do to improve your mind than improve beauty (and when I use the word beauty, I'm not talking about physical fitness).

I would also argue that a graduate degree takes more than money. There are plenty of wealthy people who struggled to finish even undergraduate because they didn't do the work and kept failing classes. There is some effort and diligence involved in seeing a degree program through to the end.

Some effort and diligence is required. But no more so than, say, performing work for which an employed worker is compensated.

A graduate degree is just a means to a self-serving end, and those with the means to obtain an advanced diploma haven't shown that they are any more productive than a person who has to work. The U.S. educational system's design helps the "haves" gain even more. Plus, they get the opportunity to pat themselves on the back for persevering through the grad school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP-- you sound like an idiot. I'm hot--but I have a graduate degree in Molecular Biology. Looks May have for me noticed, but anyone worth keeping is looking for brains and humor too. DH is hot and HATES dumb women. He has very low tolerance for dumb.

Having a graduate degree doesn't make you virtuous. It doesn't even signal that you are particularly bright. It means that you had enough money and persistence to make it through a bit more school. In DC don't think you can flash a master's degree and inspire reverence. Most women that I know here have at least a master's degree.

Just like beauty, intelligence is a gift of nature worth treasuring. Know this: If you are substantially smarter than other women, it's because you hit the genetic jackpot and had the advantage of a nurturing educational environment.

Before you decide take another verbal dump on "dumb" people, maybe you should consider whether you can morally justify such behavior. You aren't going to get into Heaven any faster because you know how to grow organisms in a petri dish. But you might add some happiness to the world by treating all people, even those you believe to be "dumb," with respect.

Actually, I would argue that this is not true. You can actually do a great deal to improve your intellect. Just like you can work out and build strength in the body, you can do brain activities, read, study, et cetera, to improve and strengthen your mind. Even learning disabilities can be worked on and greatly improved.

Just reading a lot improves your vocabulary and your knowledge base. I would say there's a lot more you can do to improve your mind than improve beauty (and when I use the word beauty, I'm not talking about physical fitness).

I would also argue that a graduate degree takes more than money. There are plenty of wealthy people who struggled to finish even undergraduate because they didn't do the work and kept failing classes. There is some effort and diligence involved in seeing a degree program through to the end.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple. Its third-tier because its a quality that can't be used to help anyone but the person who possesses that quality. Other qualities are seen as more important because they are good for humanity, community, family, etc.

Also, duh. Its either unearned or paid for.

It's not true that beauty is always unearned or paid for. Consider all of your friends who work out to keep fit and trim. And people who take the time to pick their clothing, makeup, etc. to look their best. Most people aren't gorgeous, but everyone can try to look as good as possible.

Beauty serves a very important function: It provides aesthetic pleasure. Being unable to appreciate another's beauty, feeling the need to denigrate their attractive appearance, signals a certain shallowness of feeling and perception.

Wisdom, patience and empathy are all of top importance when it comes to a person's depth. But that doesn't mean that in practical terms and daily life that beauty doesn't play an important role.

The problem is that beauty is subjective. So you say that it gives aesthetic pleasure, but different people find different things beautiful. Some people think the features valued in fashion are actually not beautiful (i.e. no curves, skeletal shape, withdrawn cheeks).

OP's husband might have thought she was beautiful, but other men might not have found her at all attractive.

Physical fitness isn't the same as beauty. And I would put physical fitness in the category of strength. It's something a person can build and work at. But you can work out all you want, be strong as an ox and athletic, and still not possess the facial features people traditionally call beautiful.

In fact, in college, guys used to make fun of the women on our college soccer and basketball teams, saying they were masculine and butch. But those women were physically fit, strong, and in great shape.

For the most part, so much of beauty (facial features, bone structure, body shape) are things that a person is born with (unless they do massive plastic surgery).

Being well groomed isn't the same as beauty.

Beauty is not something most people earn. Sure, it may be something you maintain, but that doesn't mean you earned it in the first place. It's like being born into wealth and inheriting a lot of money. You did nothing to earn it, but of course, you can save it or squander it. If you save it or make the inherited wealth work for you, that's great, but you have to realize that you didn't earn it to begin with, and it is much harder for someone who wasn't born with wealth to get to the same point. So someone who was born with horrible skin or horrible bone structure or asymmetric features or bad proportions can only do so much to change that. Sure, they can do things to look the best they can, but that isn't the same as being "beautiful."

So, no, it beauty isn't something earned. That doesn't mean that people who are beautiful should feel bad about it (just like people who are born into wealth shouldn't feel bad about it) or enjoy it, but they shouldn't see it as a source of pride or some sort of grand accomplishment.

I also lol'd at the notion of the entertainment world (a subculture that makes up less than 1% of the planet ) as being an accurate representation of reality. Ha !

To answer OP's question, beauty does make a man notice you BUT it won't make him stay with you. There must be substance-lest you end up like many beautiful women who get dumped or cheated on.

Most will argue that Maria Shriver is much hotter than the maid. In fact, she probably felt comfortable allowing her in the home because she felt the same way about Ms. Frumpy Housekeeper. Christie Brinkley's been married 50 times. So has Hallee Berry and Vanessa Williams. Heidi's beauty couldn't keep her marriage to scar-faced Seal together. So even beauty of the Hollywood kind is not enough.

Yes beauty causes us to look but it won't hold our attention if the person is stupid , shallow, mean, etc.

That's why it's considered fleeting . Oh yeah, also because it IS fleeting.

Abraham Lincoln made jokes about how ugly he was, yet he is consistently ranked and loved as one of our best presidents.

If there is a backlash against physical beauty in women (which I find laughable - just consider how many more ordinary looking male actors there are than female, or compare the way that female and male politicians are discussed when it comes to looks), it stems from the fact that physical appearance has been the main thing by which women have been judged for centuries. Not by their kindness or their wit, their bravery or determination, or the way they left the world a better place-- but by their looks. Which have a shelf life of about 15 years before they start to fade.

Mary Cassatt was not a beautiful woman by anyone's standards, but she created beautiful paintings that we still admire today. Harriet Tubman wasn't celebrated for her beauty, but for her bravery. She rescued 70 people from slavery, risking her own life.

OP, what are you leaving the world when you are gone?

Anonymous wrote:

Those that have beauty own the world.

Beauty trumps talent. And anything else one may have to offer.

Why is Kim Kardashian famous? Or Paris Hilton? Or Nicole Richie? Or any of those Real Housewives?? None of them can sing, act, dance or do anything in the talent dept. that any of us mere mortals can do, right?

They are famous and raking in the money because they are beautiful.

Enough said.

Your examples are all vapid pseudo celebrities whose names are not known because of their beauty, but because they are exploiting their famous, rich family names.

Whoever mentioned Susan Boyle is nuts!

That's like mentioning William Hung for God's sake.

Susan Boyle is a caricature. She never was a truly legit singer in the true sense.

I thought someone would mention Barbra Streisand or something....

Anonymous wrote:OP-- you sound like an idiot. I'm hot--but I have a graduate degree in Molecular Biology. Looks May have for me noticed, but anyone worth keeping is looking for brains and humor too. DH is hot and HATES dumb women. He has very low tolerance for dumb.

Having a graduate degree doesn't make you virtuous. It doesn't even signal that you are particularly bright. It means that you had enough money and persistence to make it through a bit more school. In DC don't think you can flash a master's degree and inspire reverence. Most women that I know here have at least a master's degree.

Just like beauty, intelligence is a gift of nature worth treasuring. Know this: If you are substantially smarter than other women, it's because you hit the genetic jackpot and had the advantage of a nurturing educational environment.

Before you decide take another verbal dump on "dumb" people, maybe you should consider whether you can morally justify such behavior. You aren't going to get into Heaven any faster because you know how to grow organisms in a petri dish. But you might add some happiness to the world by treating all people, even those you believe to be "dumb," with respect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's so true what you are saying OP, but no one wants to admit it.

Beauty is what really makes our world go around.

Take what we value...What makes us tick.

If a person is a talented singer w/the most spectacular voice on the planet, but they also had the ugliest facial features on the planet, then no one would pay a penny to buy their CD or see them sing in concert. Why? Because they have to also be easy on the eyes as well.

Same thing for actresses. Dancers. Now reality stars. Royalty. People want to see attractive people. When you see a commercial on T.V, an ad in a magazine or on a bus...It is ALWAYS w/pretty people.

Our eyes and our whole beings gravitate towards beauty. Not anything less.

Those that have beauty own the world.

Beauty trumps talent. And anything else one may have to offer.

Why is Kim Kardashian famous? Or Paris Hilton? Or Nicole Richie? Or any of those Real Housewives?? None of them can sing, act, dance or do anything in the talent dept. that any of us mere mortals can do, right?

They are famous and raking in the money because they are beautiful.

Enough said.

I chuckled at this. What you call 'the world' is nothing but vain entertainment industry. You really think the actual big money makers and people in power in this world are 'beautiful'? CEOs, bankers, politicians? Really? Yes, if you want to be a part of the uselessness that is entertainment beauty will get you there faster than if you are ugly. But if you plan on doing more with your life than take off your shirt, get drunk and messed up, do drugs, stand on stage and sing or whatever else falls under that category, than you get no where fast with looks. Such an upside down and delusional view of 'the world'

^This. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's so true what you are saying OP, but no one wants to admit it.

Beauty is what really makes our world go around.

Take what we value...What makes us tick.

If a person is a talented singer w/the most spectacular voice on the planet, but they also had the ugliest facial features on the planet, then no one would pay a penny to buy their CD or see them sing in concert. Why? Because they have to also be easy on the eyes as well.

Same thing for actresses. Dancers. Now reality stars. Royalty. People want to see attractive people. When you see a commercial on T.V, an ad in a magazine or on a bus...It is ALWAYS w/pretty people.

Our eyes and our whole beings gravitate towards beauty. Not anything less.

Those that have beauty own the world.

Beauty trumps talent. And anything else one may have to offer.

Why is Kim Kardashian famous? Or Paris Hilton? Or Nicole Richie? Or any of those Real Housewives?? None of them can sing, act, dance or do anything in the talent dept. that any of us mere mortals can do, right?

They are famous and raking in the money because they are beautiful.

Enough said.

Susan Boyle?

Susan Boyle is the exception that proves the rule.

You don't know music at all.

Anonymous wrote:It's so true what you are saying OP, but no one wants to admit it.

Beauty is what really makes our world go around.

Take what we value...What makes us tick.

If a person is a talented singer w/the most spectacular voice on the planet, but they also had the ugliest facial features on the planet, then no one would pay a penny to buy their CD or see them sing in concert. Why? Because they have to also be easy on the eyes as well.

Same thing for actresses. Dancers. Now reality stars. Royalty. People want to see attractive people. When you see a commercial on T.V, an ad in a magazine or on a bus...It is ALWAYS w/pretty people.

Our eyes and our whole beings gravitate towards beauty. Not anything less.

Those that have beauty own the world.

Beauty trumps talent. And anything else one may have to offer.

Why is Kim Kardashian famous? Or Paris Hilton? Or Nicole Richie? Or any of those Real Housewives?? None of them can sing, act, dance or do anything in the talent dept. that any of us mere mortals can do, right?

They are famous and raking in the money because they are beautiful.

Enough said.

I chuckled at this. What you call 'the world' is nothing but vain entertainment industry. You really think the actual big money makers and people in power in this world are 'beautiful'? CEOs, bankers, politicians? Really? Yes, if you want to be a part of the uselessness that is entertainment beauty will get you there faster than if you are ugly. But if you plan on doing more with your life than take off your shirt, get drunk and messed up, do drugs, stand on stage and sing or whatever else falls under that category, than you get no where fast with looks. Such an upside down and delusional view of 'the world'

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple. Its third-tier because its a quality that can't be used to help anyone but the person who possesses that quality. Other qualities are seen as more important because they are good for humanity, community, family, etc.

Also, duh. Its either unearned or paid for.

It's not true that beauty is always unearned or paid for. Consider all of your friends who work out to keep fit and trim. And people who take the time to pick their clothing, makeup, etc. to look their best. Most people aren't gorgeous, but everyone can try to look as good as possible.

Beauty serves a very important function: It provides aesthetic pleasure. Being unable to appreciate another's beauty, feeling the need to denigrate their attractive appearance, signals a certain shallowness of feeling and perception.

Wisdom, patience and empathy are all of top importance when it comes to a person's depth. But that doesn't mean that in practical terms and daily life that beauty doesn't play an important role.

I'm PP and I actually agree with you on this point and even put myself in this category. I put myself together well, I'm often complimented on that actually (I happen to really enjoy that and even put clothes together for others sometimes for fun or shop for friends who want help). I'm also in very good shape athletically, my labs are always great and I love that I can pick up and do anything active or physical without any notice because that's my version of fun. BUT I'm not beautiful, I'm just not. I'm average/ decent and I take pride in making myself feel good/ look presentable. I just think that's different than beauty. And people respond to that because it tends to project a message that the person actually gives a crap/ has respect for themselves.

I also appreciate physical beauty in others and don't feel the need to denigrate others who are better looking than I am. Shoot, my sister is downright beautiful, so are some of my dear friends. Its nice to hear that you are pretty, I don't mind commenting on that if it comes to mind.

But you said it yourself, some qualities are important to depth and some are beneficial because they open doors. It is what it is, but doesn't make "being hot" or whatever on par with "being kind". It just doesn't translate to any depth and that's fine.

Anonymous wrote:Simple. Its third-tier because its a quality that can't be used to help anyone but the person who possesses that quality. Other qualities are seen as more important because they are good for humanity, community, family, etc.

Also, duh. Its either unearned or paid for.

It's not true that beauty is always unearned or paid for. Consider all of your friends who work out to keep fit and trim. And people who take the time to pick their clothing, makeup, etc. to look their best. Most people aren't gorgeous, but everyone can try to look as good as possible.

Beauty serves a very important function: It provides aesthetic pleasure. Being unable to appreciate another's beauty, feeling the need to denigrate their attractive appearance, signals a certain shallowness of feeling and perception.

Wisdom, patience and empathy are all of top importance when it comes to a person's depth. But that doesn't mean that in practical terms and daily life that beauty doesn't play an important role.

Simple. Its third-tier because its a quality that can't be used to help anyone but the person who possesses that quality. Other qualities are seen as more important because they are good for humanity, community, family, etc.

Also, duh. Its either unearned or paid for.