Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't connect grace to specific events but rather to my self and my state of being. Grace to me is like getting an unexpected special bonus gift. If you got it all the time, it would no longer to unexpected or special or a gift. I see it as a bonus gift that goes along with having a personal relationship with JC.

To me grace is when I am going through something difficult and God just fills my heart and mine with peace. It doesn't mean the difficulty is gone but that I have a stillness, a calmness and a peace that encompasses me. Other times I really have to work hard to get to a place of peace and calm and I may never get there or I partially get there then something happens and my peace is gone. The gift of peace is just amazing compared to the hard earned peace so I consider it grace.

Same might be true of forgiveness. Sometimes when I am burdened by guilt or shame, it is just lifted from me. Gone. I have wrestled with the feelings related to an issue for a long time to have all those feelings just vanish in an instant and never return. That is grace. Other times I have to really work and wallow through the guilt or shame or pain and slowly figure it out and come out the other side, often still with lingering feelings.

Faith to me is just trust. Not trust that certain things will or won't happen but trust in a relationship. So far in my 40 years of living nothing I have accomplished, noting I have desired, nothing I have acquired, nothing I have experienced compares to my relationship with JC so I have trust or faith in Him and in that relationship. And that relationship is founded on faith.

I don't believe that God ever promised a smooth easy life. He promised strength, rest, peace, love, grace, light, and to be there with us as we go through the highs and lows, the peaks and valleys of life.

I get all of that without JC.

Also, I have my family and friends (and nurses and doctors and public servants, when needed) to be there for me - and they are actually visible and can provide concrete assistance.

I am the Pp you are quoting and I also have great family and friends and many others there to support me and provide assistance. None of that even remotely comes close to what I get from JC. Basically if you only have had the experience of friends and family then you can't compare the two. My relationship with JC is obviously a faith-based one and not the same as how I relate to the people who are around me, - they compliment each other.

I have a pretty great life and a strong support network. It isn't to fill something missing in my life.

It's adding an imaginary friend -- and if it makes you feel better, why not.

Anonymous wrote:
NP here. That's nice for you 11:38 PP, but I am far from the only person who has gone through parts of life without family or friends and with nobody to turn to, but personally I feel at those times I was sustained by grace. Didn't really have faith at those times either. Being sustained through very difficult passages built my faith.

Nothing you could opine would really impact my assessment of my personal experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't connect grace to specific events but rather to my self and my state of being. Grace to me is like getting an unexpected special bonus gift. If you got it all the time, it would no longer to unexpected or special or a gift. I see it as a bonus gift that goes along with having a personal relationship with JC.

To me grace is when I am going through something difficult and God just fills my heart and mine with peace. It doesn't mean the difficulty is gone but that I have a stillness, a calmness and a peace that encompasses me. Other times I really have to work hard to get to a place of peace and calm and I may never get there or I partially get there then something happens and my peace is gone. The gift of peace is just amazing compared to the hard earned peace so I consider it grace.

Same might be true of forgiveness. Sometimes when I am burdened by guilt or shame, it is just lifted from me. Gone. I have wrestled with the feelings related to an issue for a long time to have all those feelings just vanish in an instant and never return. That is grace. Other times I have to really work and wallow through the guilt or shame or pain and slowly figure it out and come out the other side, often still with lingering feelings.

Faith to me is just trust. Not trust that certain things will or won't happen but trust in a relationship. So far in my 40 years of living nothing I have accomplished, noting I have desired, nothing I have acquired, nothing I have experienced compares to my relationship with JC so I have trust or faith in Him and in that relationship. And that relationship is founded on faith.

I don't believe that God ever promised a smooth easy life. He promised strength, rest, peace, love, grace, light, and to be there with us as we go through the highs and lows, the peaks and valleys of life.

I get all of that without JC.

Also, I have my family and friends (and nurses and doctors and public servants, when needed) to be there for me - and they are actually visible and can provide concrete assistance.

I am the Pp you are quoting and I also have great family and friends and many others there to support me and provide assistance. None of that even remotely comes close to what I get from JC. Basically if you only have had the experience of friends and family then you can't compare the two. My relationship with JC is obviously a faith-based one and not the same as how I relate to the people who are around me, - they compliment each other.

I have a pretty great life and a strong support network. It isn't to fill something missing in my life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't connect grace to specific events but rather to my self and my state of being. Grace to me is like getting an unexpected special bonus gift. If you got it all the time, it would no longer to unexpected or special or a gift. I see it as a bonus gift that goes along with having a personal relationship with JC.

To me grace is when I am going through something difficult and God just fills my heart and mine with peace. It doesn't mean the difficulty is gone but that I have a stillness, a calmness and a peace that encompasses me. Other times I really have to work hard to get to a place of peace and calm and I may never get there or I partially get there then something happens and my peace is gone. The gift of peace is just amazing compared to the hard earned peace so I consider it grace.

Same might be true of forgiveness. Sometimes when I am burdened by guilt or shame, it is just lifted from me. Gone. I have wrestled with the feelings related to an issue for a long time to have all those feelings just vanish in an instant and never return. That is grace. Other times I have to really work and wallow through the guilt or shame or pain and slowly figure it out and come out the other side, often still with lingering feelings.

Faith to me is just trust. Not trust that certain things will or won't happen but trust in a relationship. So far in my 40 years of living nothing I have accomplished, noting I have desired, nothing I have acquired, nothing I have experienced compares to my relationship with JC so I have trust or faith in Him and in that relationship. And that relationship is founded on faith.

I don't believe that God ever promised a smooth easy life. He promised strength, rest, peace, love, grace, light, and to be there with us as we go through the highs and lows, the peaks and valleys of life.

I get all of that without JC.

Also, I have my family and friends (and nurses and doctors and public servants, when needed) to be there for me - and they are actually visible and can provide concrete assistance.

Perhaps. For now, maybe. But there will come a time in your life -- if you're lucky, and live long enough -- that you will need more than what you are getting from these family members and friends. Or they may no longer be there for you. And ultimately, they will disappoint you, because they are only human too. And, they can't provide eternal life and the route to God the Father.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Grace the indescribable feeling of forgiveness and faith more the action on the part of the person?

Would Faith be believing you will have a child after experiencing infertility?

OP, I do not believe that this is an example of faith. It may be your hope, but just because we want something very badly does not mean that it will come to pass. You have hope, but not faith, in this situation.

Faith is trusting that no matter what happens, God's will is perfect and will be fulfilled in your life, no matter what the circumstances.

According to this line of thinking, all the praying in the world to have a baby won't work if God, in his perfect will, doesn't want it to happen. He has his reasons and you won't understand them until you get to heaven -- if you're good.

so birth control is pointless because if God wants conception to result, it will?

Please don't twist my words around. We were talking about infertility and wanting a baby. Of course contraception is important, if appropriate in family planning. It yet another tool God has given us through medicine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't connect grace to specific events but rather to my self and my state of being. Grace to me is like getting an unexpected special bonus gift. If you got it all the time, it would no longer to unexpected or special or a gift. I see it as a bonus gift that goes along with having a personal relationship with JC.

To me grace is when I am going through something difficult and God just fills my heart and mine with peace. It doesn't mean the difficulty is gone but that I have a stillness, a calmness and a peace that encompasses me. Other times I really have to work hard to get to a place of peace and calm and I may never get there or I partially get there then something happens and my peace is gone. The gift of peace is just amazing compared to the hard earned peace so I consider it grace.

Same might be true of forgiveness. Sometimes when I am burdened by guilt or shame, it is just lifted from me. Gone. I have wrestled with the feelings related to an issue for a long time to have all those feelings just vanish in an instant and never return. That is grace. Other times I have to really work and wallow through the guilt or shame or pain and slowly figure it out and come out the other side, often still with lingering feelings.

Faith to me is just trust. Not trust that certain things will or won't happen but trust in a relationship. So far in my 40 years of living nothing I have accomplished, noting I have desired, nothing I have acquired, nothing I have experienced compares to my relationship with JC so I have trust or faith in Him and in that relationship. And that relationship is founded on faith.

I don't believe that God ever promised a smooth easy life. He promised strength, rest, peace, love, grace, light, and to be there with us as we go through the highs and lows, the peaks and valleys of life.

I get all of that without JC.

Also, I have my family and friends (and nurses and doctors and public servants, when needed) to be there for me - and they are actually visible and can provide concrete assistance.

I am the Pp you are quoting and I also have great family and friends and many others there to support me and provide assistance. None of that even remotely comes close to what I get from JC. Basically if you only have had the experience of friends and family then you can't compare the two. My relationship with JC is obviously a faith-based one and not the same as how I relate to the people who are around me, - they compliment each other.

I have a pretty great life and a strong support network. It isn't to fill something missing in my life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Grace the indescribable feeling of forgiveness and faith more the action on the part of the person?

Would Faith be believing you will have a child after experiencing infertility?

OP, I do not believe that this is an example of faith. It may be your hope, but just because we want something very badly does not mean that it will come to pass. You have hope, but not faith, in this situation.

Faith is trusting that no matter what happens, God's will is perfect and will be fulfilled in your life, no matter what the circumstances.

According to this line of thinking, all the praying in the world to have a baby won't work if God, in his perfect will, doesn't want it to happen. He has his reasons and you won't understand them until you get to heaven -- if you're good.

so birth control is pointless because if God wants conception to result, it will?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Grace the indescribable feeling of forgiveness and faith more the action on the part of the person?

Would Faith be believing you will have a child after experiencing infertility?

OP, I do not believe that this is an example of faith. It may be your hope, but just because we want something very badly does not mean that it will come to pass. You have hope, but not faith, in this situation.

Faith is trusting that no matter what happens, God's will is perfect and will be fulfilled in your life, no matter what the circumstances.

According to this line of thinking, all the praying in the world to have a baby won't work if God, in his perfect will, doesn't want it to happen. He has his reasons and you won't understand them until you get to heaven -- if you're good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't connect grace to specific events but rather to my self and my state of being. Grace to me is like getting an unexpected special bonus gift. If you got it all the time, it would no longer to unexpected or special or a gift. I see it as a bonus gift that goes along with having a personal relationship with JC.

To me grace is when I am going through something difficult and God just fills my heart and mine with peace. It doesn't mean the difficulty is gone but that I have a stillness, a calmness and a peace that encompasses me. Other times I really have to work hard to get to a place of peace and calm and I may never get there or I partially get there then something happens and my peace is gone. The gift of peace is just amazing compared to the hard earned peace so I consider it grace.

Same might be true of forgiveness. Sometimes when I am burdened by guilt or shame, it is just lifted from me. Gone. I have wrestled with the feelings related to an issue for a long time to have all those feelings just vanish in an instant and never return. That is grace. Other times I have to really work and wallow through the guilt or shame or pain and slowly figure it out and come out the other side, often still with lingering feelings.

Faith to me is just trust. Not trust that certain things will or won't happen but trust in a relationship. So far in my 40 years of living nothing I have accomplished, noting I have desired, nothing I have acquired, nothing I have experienced compares to my relationship with JC so I have trust or faith in Him and in that relationship. And that relationship is founded on faith.

I don't believe that God ever promised a smooth easy life. He promised strength, rest, peace, love, grace, light, and to be there with us as we go through the highs and lows, the peaks and valleys of life.

I get all of that without JC.

Also, I have my family and friends (and nurses and doctors and public servants, when needed) to be there for me - and they are actually visible and can provide concrete assistance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't connect grace to specific events but rather to my self and my state of being. Grace to me is like getting an unexpected special bonus gift. If you got it all the time, it would no longer to unexpected or special or a gift. I see it as a bonus gift that goes along with having a personal relationship with JC.

To me grace is when I am going through something difficult and God just fills my heart and mine with peace. It doesn't mean the difficulty is gone but that I have a stillness, a calmness and a peace that encompasses me. Other times I really have to work hard to get to a place of peace and calm and I may never get there or I partially get there then something happens and my peace is gone. The gift of peace is just amazing compared to the hard earned peace so I consider it grace.

Same might be true of forgiveness. Sometimes when I am burdened by guilt or shame, it is just lifted from me. Gone. I have wrestled with the feelings related to an issue for a long time to have all those feelings just vanish in an instant and never return. That is grace. Other times I have to really work and wallow through the guilt or shame or pain and slowly figure it out and come out the other side, often still with lingering feelings.

Faith to me is just trust. Not trust that certain things will or won't happen but trust in a relationship. So far in my 40 years of living nothing I have accomplished, noting I have desired, nothing I have acquired, nothing I have experienced compares to my relationship with JC so I have trust or faith in Him and in that relationship. And that relationship is founded on faith.

I don't believe that God ever promised a smooth easy life. He promised strength, rest, peace, love, grace, light, and to be there with us as we go through the highs and lows, the peaks and valleys of life.

I get all of that without JC.

Also, I have my family and friends (and nurses and doctors and public servants, when needed) to be there for me - and they are actually visible and can provide concrete assistance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Grace the indescribable feeling of forgiveness and faith more the action on the part of the person?

Would Faith be believing you will have a child after experiencing infertility?

OP, I do not believe that this is an example of faith. It may be your hope, but just because we want something very badly does not mean that it will come to pass. You have hope, but not faith, in this situation.

Faith is trusting that no matter what happens, God's will is perfect and will be fulfilled in your life, no matter what the circumstances.

According to this line of thinking, all the praying in the world to have a baby won't work if God, in his perfect will, doesn't want it to happen. He has his reasons and you won't understand them until you get to heaven -- if you're good.

Anonymous wrote:I don't connect grace to specific events but rather to my self and my state of being. Grace to me is like getting an unexpected special bonus gift. If you got it all the time, it would no longer to unexpected or special or a gift. I see it as a bonus gift that goes along with having a personal relationship with JC.

To me grace is when I am going through something difficult and God just fills my heart and mine with peace. It doesn't mean the difficulty is gone but that I have a stillness, a calmness and a peace that encompasses me. Other times I really have to work hard to get to a place of peace and calm and I may never get there or I partially get there then something happens and my peace is gone. The gift of peace is just amazing compared to the hard earned peace so I consider it grace.

Same might be true of forgiveness. Sometimes when I am burdened by guilt or shame, it is just lifted from me. Gone. I have wrestled with the feelings related to an issue for a long time to have all those feelings just vanish in an instant and never return. That is grace. Other times I have to really work and wallow through the guilt or shame or pain and slowly figure it out and come out the other side, often still with lingering feelings.

Faith to me is just trust. Not trust that certain things will or won't happen but trust in a relationship. So far in my 40 years of living nothing I have accomplished, noting I have desired, nothing I have acquired, nothing I have experienced compares to my relationship with JC so I have trust or faith in Him and in that relationship. And that relationship is founded on faith.

I don't believe that God ever promised a smooth easy life. He promised strength, rest, peace, love, grace, light, and to be there with us as we go through the highs and lows, the peaks and valleys of life.