Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 12:57     Subject: HGC demographics
Anonymous wrote:This is 10:47, I was bringing it up because earlier in the thread someone was suggesting that this was made up:

"Where are people getting this data about test prep for $600? Or test prep at all? (never mind the data about the success rate of the test prep) This sounds like the beginning of a rumor, with an anonymous person presenting a random statistic as truth."

In terms of diversity I think that the prep is probably playing a very small role. The lack of diversity in the HGC is the same issue as the achievement gap.



Bingo!
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 12:52     Subject: HGC demographics
Anonymous wrote:My child graduated from Barnsley last year. Her year was definitely white minority. Asian/Indian majority.


I'm PP 12:45. This is not the case for incoming Barnsely. When I went to the Open House, it was mostly Caucasian. I guess for Barnsely at least it can vary.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 12:51     Subject: HGC demographics
My child graduated from Barnsley last year. Her year was definitely white minority. Asian/Indian majority.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 12:47     Subject: HGC demographics
This is 10:47, I was bringing it up because earlier in the thread someone was suggesting that this was made up:

"Where are people getting this data about test prep for $600? Or test prep at all? (never mind the data about the success rate of the test prep) This sounds like the beginning of a rumor, with an anonymous person presenting a random statistic as truth."

In terms of diversity I think that the prep is probably playing a very small role. The lack of diversity in the HGC is the same issue as the achievement gap.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 12:45     Subject: HGC demographics
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was curious about this, so thanks for posting. I think AA and Latino are under-represented at our HGC and Asian/Indian are over-represented. I was surprised to find out that there was test prep going on to the tune of $600 or more, so this may be influencing the demographic.


Personally, I think if a kid needs to have $600+ tutor to get into HGC, then kid doesn't belong there. Not saying all kids that have tutors are like this, but if a kid on his own can't get in, then it's questionable whether the kid belongs there.


Asian mom with HGC kids... Didn't even occur to me to do test prep, but I'm learning from DCUM that people hire tutors and test prep for everything in MoCo. I personally don't think you're doing your kids any favors test-cramming them to get into a program they couldn't otherwise get into.
at th
In any event, my understanding is that teacher recommendations play a not-insignificant role. Good ones will identify good candidates for the program. Also, I thought they do try to balance genders in the program, but maybe I am remembering wrong. I have had one of each get in. My guess is that they do not adjust for race. The program my kids are in is very heavy on East and South Asians, and has almost no AA or Latino representation, which reflects the community. Better diversity would be great, but I don't know what would be a good way to achieve that given the heavy reliance on test scores. Testing is voluntary, so more outreach perhaps? They already send letters to every 3rd grade parent in multiple languages, and host open houses, but perhaps some parents still don't know what it's about. Other than perhaps widening the search pool, I agree that if a kid needs extra help (like test prep or special considerations), they won't be served well by being in the program. There's GT in the home schools and it's just two years anyway...


+1 Another Asian mom with HGC kid that never used a tutor or test prep - didn't even know one existed at this age.

1. For bolded #1 - you must be in Cold Spring, because Barnsely incoming HGC is mostly Caucasian, several Asians, a few blacks. Not sure if I saw any Hispanics. So, it depends on your cluster. I know CS HGC is 95+% Asian.

2. #2 - I agree that teacher recommendations is probably factored in quite a bit. Even if a child scores well in tests, it doesn't mean the child would benefit from an HGC style classroom setting. Some people test really well but have a harder time applying concepts or learning in a certain way (like HGC), while others may not test as well but the teacher can tell how the child learns and whether an HGC type environment would hugely benefit the child.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 12:43     Subject: HGC demographics
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was curious about this, so thanks for posting. I think AA and Latino are under-represented at our HGC and Asian/Indian are over-represented. I was surprised to find out that there was test prep going on to the tune of $600 or more, so this may be influencing the demographic.


Personally, I think if a kid needs to have $600+ tutor to get into HGC, then kid doesn't belong there. Not saying all kids that have tutors are like this, but if a kid on his own can't get in, then it's questionable whether the kid belongs there.


Asian mom with HGC kids... Didn't even occur to me to do test prep, but I'm learning from DCUM that people hire tutors and test prep for everything in MoCo. I personally don't think you're doing your kids any favors test-cramming them to get into a program they couldn't otherwise get into.

In any event, my understanding is that teacher recommendations play a not-insignificant role. Good ones will identify good candidates for the program. Also, I thought they do try to balance genders in the program, but maybe I am remembering wrong. I have had one of each get in. My guess is that they do not adjust for race. The program my kids are in is very heavy on East and South Asians, and has almost no AA or Latino representation, which reflects the community. Better diversity would be great, but I don't know what would be a good way to achieve that given the heavy reliance on test scores. Testing is voluntary, so more outreach perhaps? They already send letters to every 3rd grade parent in multiple languages, and host open houses, but perhaps some parents still don't know what it's about. Other than perhaps widening the search pool, I agree that if a kid needs extra help (like test prep or special considerations), they won't be served well by being in the program. There's GT in the home schools and it's just two years anyway...


I think admission test is the most important factor. Other factors matter as well, but I have yet to hear of an exceptional student getting in after not doing well in the test. On the other hand, I have heard of students who have behavioral problems get in because they did very well in the test.

You cannot cram to get into HGC because no one knows what the test looks like, not even the test prep centers. The test is based on the curriculum MCPS teaches. Which means that theoretically the instruction given in the classroom should suffice for any student. The test is testing understanding and application of concepts taught in school - so you either get it or you don't.

Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 12:30     Subject: HGC demographics
Anonymous wrote:HGC test prep is real - the one I have heard most about is by a company called APLUS. I heard other parents discussing it last year at a sports activity.


I think this is common knowledge, is it not? Just to even the playing field, here is my public service contribution. Cost runs to approximately - $800 - $1000. Admissions rate is around 30% (yeah, regardless of what the school says - I am standing behind this number because if a single student gets admitted to 2 programs, the schools will count is as 2 admissions. )

It is a self-selected group of students who probably have as much chance of getting in on their own. They are affluent and very bright, probably already in GT and advanced tracks.

So what is the center preparing them for? Frankly, for HGC testing they have no idea what the test covers or what the test format is like. So the test centers are tutoring them in all kinds of stuff that looks like it has come out of a SSAT prep book...which means that the content is much harder than the HGC test. They DO NOT TEACH CONTENT....so, if your kid does not know fractions and long division - they are not going to learn it there.

For other exams (MS, HS) too they are covering from SAT books.

http://en1.endiva.net/AplusLearningINC/portal/PortalHome.asp

https://www.mathenglish.com/


Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 10:47     Subject: HGC demographics
HGC test prep is real - the one I have heard most about is by a company called APLUS. I heard other parents discussing it last year at a sports activity.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 09:47     Subject: HGC demographics
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was curious about this, so thanks for posting. I think AA and Latino are under-represented at our HGC and Asian/Indian are over-represented. I was surprised to find out that there was test prep going on to the tune of $600 or more, so this may be influencing the demographic.


Personally, I think if a kid needs to have $600+ tutor to get into HGC, then kid doesn't belong there. Not saying all kids that have tutors are like this, but if a kid on his own can't get in, then it's questionable whether the kid belongs there.


Asian mom with HGC kids... Didn't even occur to me to do test prep, but I'm learning from DCUM that people hire tutors and test prep for everything in MoCo. I personally don't think you're doing your kids any favors test-cramming them to get into a program they couldn't otherwise get into.

In any event, my understanding is that teacher recommendations play a not-insignificant role. Good ones will identify good candidates for the program. Also, I thought they do try to balance genders in the program, but maybe I am remembering wrong. I have had one of each get in. My guess is that they do not adjust for race. The program my kids are in is very heavy on East and South Asians, and has almost no AA or Latino representation, which reflects the community. Better diversity would be great, but I don't know what would be a good way to achieve that given the heavy reliance on test scores. Testing is voluntary, so more outreach perhaps? They already send letters to every 3rd grade parent in multiple languages, and host open houses, but perhaps some parents still don't know what it's about. Other than perhaps widening the search pool, I agree that if a kid needs extra help (like test prep or special considerations), they won't be served well by being in the program. There's GT in the home schools and it's just two years anyway...
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 09:45     Subject: Re:HGC demographics
Anonymous wrote:Where are people getting this data about test prep for $600? Or test prep at all? (never mind the data about the success rate of the test prep)

This sounds like the beginning of a rumor, with an anonymous person presenting a random statistic as truth. Do we know this is happening? was it something from another thread?

I have a child at an HGC, and we certainly didn't provide any test prep. In fact, I was under the impression that it didn't exist for these tests. I don't know any other parents who prepped their child for the test (though I don't expect they'd advertise it if they did.) Personally, I wouldn't want my child to BE at an HGC if he/she didn't belong there based on his/her own abilities. (without prep and thus on a level playing field.) It would just make life really stressful for the child.

+1
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 09:42     Subject: HGC demographics
We did some tutoring for my old child in Spanish last year. I was very shocked (saddened) to see an ad from the same company offer test prep for both the second and third grade testing (to support your childs application to the HGC magnets). Hopefully the other factors in the process weed out kids who are just prepped for the test.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 09:32     Subject: Re:HGC demographics
Where are people getting this data about test prep for $600? Or test prep at all? (never mind the data about the success rate of the test prep)

This sounds like the beginning of a rumor, with an anonymous person presenting a random statistic as truth. Do we know this is happening? was it something from another thread?

I have a child at an HGC, and we certainly didn't provide any test prep. In fact, I was under the impression that it didn't exist for these tests. I don't know any other parents who prepped their child for the test (though I don't expect they'd advertise it if they did.) Personally, I wouldn't want my child to BE at an HGC if he/she didn't belong there based on his/her own abilities. (without prep and thus on a level playing field.) It would just make life really stressful for the child.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 09:27     Subject: HGC demographics
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was curious about this, so thanks for posting. I think AA and Latino are under-represented at our HGC and Asian/Indian are over-represented. I was surprised to find out that there was test prep going on to the tune of $600 or more, so this may be influencing the demographic.


The applicant pool for AA and Latino students is significantly disproportionate as well. If MCPS wants to create a more diverse HGC program, they need to find out why these families are not applying.


Because those families cannot afford to pay for $600+ for test preps or tutors - that was sarcasm.

In all honesty, proportionally, those kids are lower SES and do not do as well academically. Even if they were to apply, they wouldn't get it in since there is no affirm. action.

I know several black and hispanic families that do value education, but the parents simply do not have the resources to help their kids to compete with more affluent asian/causcasion kids. This is just part of the equation, obviously. There's probably a host of other factors that come into play.


Where are the stats on who applies? It sounds like schools that draw from diverse areas (my experience is with Pine Crest/Oak View) are diverse. Schools that draw from less diverse areas are less diverse. Our HGC does have students with lower SES and does have AA and other minorities.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 09:23     Subject: HGC demographics
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was curious about this, so thanks for posting. I think AA and Latino are under-represented at our HGC and Asian/Indian are over-represented. I was surprised to find out that there was test prep going on to the tune of $600 or more, so this may be influencing the demographic.


The applicant pool for AA and Latino students is significantly disproportionate as well. If MCPS wants to create a more diverse HGC program, they need to find out why these families are not applying.


Because those families cannot afford to pay for $600+ for test preps or tutors - that was sarcasm.

In all honesty, proportionally, those kids are lower SES and do not do as well academically. Even if they were to apply, they wouldn't get it in since there is no affirm. action.

I know several black and hispanic families that do value education, but the parents simply do not have the resources to help their kids to compete with more affluent asian/causcasion kids. This is just part of the equation, obviously. There's probably a host of other factors that come into play.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2014 09:23     Subject: HGC demographics
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was curious about this, so thanks for posting. I think AA and Latino are under-represented at our HGC and Asian/Indian are over-represented. I was surprised to find out that there was test prep going on to the tune of $600 or more, so this may be influencing the demographic.


Personally, I think if a kid needs to have $600+ tutor to get into HGC, then kid doesn't belong there. Not saying all kids that have tutors are like this, but if a kid on his own can't get in, then it's questionable whether the kid belongs there.


I don't buy that test prep will get you in the HGC if you are not a good student to begin with. Test prep success rates is no more than 30% of students. Test preps concentrate on practice, they do not teach content, so it is helpful only to the child who is actually doing well in their school.

The fact also is that the kids who do get in after using Test Prep are still excelling in HGC, so I am sure that they do belong there.

Yes, AA and Latinos are under-represented in HGC, but only if you are looking at their %age in the total population of MCPS students. However, they are represented quite accurately if you look at academic achievements of this population as a whole in MCPS.

So, the point is not that they are under-represented in HGC, they are also under-represented in achievement in the regular schools, county, state, and the whole country. HGC is just reflecting this trend.