OP here - I'm a little skeptical about the change of heart later in a woman's life. And the skepticism comes from a seed of doubt planted by the MRAs. Their contention is that women only pick "betas" (which I assume approximates the shy, smart guys) after their looks are starting to decline, their choices in men are or will soon become more limited, and their interest shifts from sexual attraction to more pragmatic concerns about long term loyalty and resources. In other words, "betas" only stand a chance when sexual attraction becomes a woman's secondary concern.

All of these posts go back to my response in the "identifying a sociopath" thread (which is where I think OP got the idea to start this thread): many/most women may have preferred these testosterone-laden jocky or bad boy guys in high school or college (which of course doesn't make those guys sociopaths by the way!), but as I said there, if you rounded up all the girls from that other PP's high school and college, I'm sure the happy ones aren't with those jock/self-centered/always the bad boy guys now. Mainly because they don't make good husbands, but also because we all grow up and figure out what we really want in life and what that looks like in terms of a partner. And if we're lucky, we find a match.

Still not to say there aren't kind, brainy jocks or bad boys, there are. But the stereotype OP mentions... yeah, most of us happy people are not with them now.

I fooled around with or was absurdly attracted to some gorgeous, stacked, testosterone laden guys in my college and immediate post-college years. They were amazing. I was clueless. It was fun and also hurtful.

I grew up during my 20's. In my thirties I dated completely diffferent types and I married a funny, smart, honest, brainy, computer game loving, programmer. I also think he's quite handsome but he's sure not the testosterone hunk of my youth. He is however, someone I fully trust and can be myself with, a loving, caring father and husband, and someone who takes joy in making me happy. When you grow up you realize that beats the washboard abs you're hanging onto on the back of the Harley. (Although I do miss a bit of that sometimes now that I'm dwelling on it!)

Anonymous wrote:I've joked with him that I would have been happy to party with him in college but would never have dated him.

So you're telling DH you settled for him?

Anonymous wrote:I had a few guys treat me like sh!t in college

There's your answer, OP.

Totally depends on priorities. I know a very nice looking woman who likes short, balding, funny Jewish guys. Captain of the football team would not be her thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I picked an asshole as a teenager and turned him into a respectful guy who I then married. Had I not been able to change him I wouldn't have married him.

Being smart is sexy. I have a college-age daughter and while yes, hot jocks turn her head, she actually talks with and forms relationships with smart, kind guys.

Exactly. Most mature women eventually figure out which is the better choice. When you're young, it's all about physical attraction, for most anyway. Some people never outgrow this though.

Like men. Men never seem to outgrown the physical attraction/youth obsession. Not all men, but most men.

Anonymous wrote:I picked an asshole as a teenager and turned him into a respectful guy who I then married. Had I not been able to change him I wouldn't have married him.

Being smart is sexy. I have a college-age daughter and while yes, hot jocks turn her head, she actually talks with and forms relationships with smart, kind guys.

Exactly. Most mature women eventually figure out which is the better choice. When you're young, it's all about physical attraction, for most anyway. Some people never outgrow this though.

I think many people are overlooking how your ideas of what's attractive change over time. I wasn't really attracted to the nerdy guys in high school. Oh, we were friends but I didn't find them romantically attractive even though I could appreciate their nice eyes or warm smile. I was physically attracted to the jock or 'confident' type in high school and in college. It wasn't until I was in my 20s that I realized that kind of guy just didn't work for me. I met the guy who would be DH when I was 28. I've joked with him that I would have been happy to party with him in college but would never have dated him. If only I knew then what I know now!

I also want to flip this around and talk about girls. I was a 'cute' girl in high school and college but never had a boyfriend in high school. Boys weren't interested in me. They were more interested in the 'pretty' girls. I also have curly hair which was NOT popular back then and the products weren't nearly as good as they are now. I didn't date much until after college. It seems I wasn't the only one maturing and discovering what my 'type' really was. What I continually find myself attracted to now are guys who have emotional awareness, are available emotionally, I can have an intelligent conversation with, are down to earth, practical and have a 'nice' face. I'm especially attracted to guys in the trades - not Joe Blow Plumber but the guy who worked his way up and owns his own business or is a sought after craftsman.

I've always gone for the nerds. Dated nerds, married a nerd, and am a nerd myself.

People care about different things. Some women (just like some men) only care about outward appearances. Others really require huge intelligence, or compassion, or humor. In my case, I married the smartest, nicest, funniest, best looking guy I could find and who wanted me too, and I count myself lucky.

I was lucky in college and had choices about who I dated. I went to a school with a lot of frats, so as an example: I went with a football guy to his frat's formal one year; went with a guy from a ridiculously rich family to his super WASP-y frat's formal; I was invited by various guys to all the parties at the "hipster cool party" frat over the years; and I spent more time than ever at the punk-y, college rock-y frat (yes, even they had a frat).

And of all those types, over and over I wanted the smart, cute, a little shy guy who either played in a band (even if it was a bad band), or was a visual artist, or who played more of the slacker sports, like ultimate frisbee. Even though I went on dates with jocks and preps etc (to speak to the "power" point another PP made), what was powerful to me was artistic talent, HUMILITY (the cocky guys who were musicians or artists never got anywhere with me, so never dated a lead singer LOL!), and smarts.

Re: the OP's question, I just think "Chess nerd" or "Jock" is way too limiting in terms of what high school and college girls/women can choose from. There's also the "outcast/alienated" guy, the bad boy who's always in trouble (that has it's own power) but is neither a jock or a chess nerd; the guy with a car (LOL!), etc.

And in every category of guy, there can be cocky obnoxious self-centered jerks (even among the chess nerds!), as well as the nicer, quieter guys, or the "Let's parrrrrtay!" guys... every category each has all sorts of personalities. For some of us, the personality type is more important than anything. I married a fire fighter! And he's the sexiest man anywhere, but very different from the musician/bad boy types I was drawn to (although he's a huge music fan and grew up with plenty of bad boys so he's got that edge). But he's also very humble and kind and smart and a great dad. So that is what's "powerful" to me.

I dated and married a rare non-asshole jock.

When I was younger I tended to go for looks/physical attraction first and foremost. At least initially. But it didn't take long before intelligence/humor/personality/work ethic/overall values became just as/even more important. A$$holes were definitely not my cup of tea, lol.

Generalizing, but:

Women want powerful men. That power can come in different forms. I like men in suits with brains. Their power is their intellectual ability and subsequent earning power. Other women want outdoorsy guys, or jocks, or military/police. Because of power.

Everyone wants a kind man, but may be blinded by the power thing. And really powerful men are often not particularly kind. So there is a balance there. Some women are good at finding it. Some women aren't. And some women don't care.

But if a woman had to pick between a super kind but wimpy man, and a regularly kind but more powerful man, she's going to pick power.

I married a smart, intelligent man who's helpful, cleans, cooks, does dishes, buys me great gifts, loves talking to me and is in great shape.

I still dream about type A a$$hole jocks!! I think it's hard wired into us.